What qualifies as a veteran tree.

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

But your earlier post said that all ancients have more veteran characteristics than you can shake a stick at:confused1:

 

yes i did didnt I! silly me, lets say that SOME ancients can be so vital and healthy despite thier age that few of the typical characters associated with veterans exist. take this agent birch from staverton for an example, it is MINT:001_cool: ancient yes, but veteran?

 

[Gollum]

veteran

 

this is an ancient hornbeam:001_cool:

[ATTACH]75028[/ATTACH]

 

 

Now the hedge row that the hornbeam is part of has been classified as ancient.

400 to 500 years

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

Now the hedge row that the hornbeam is part of has been classified as ancient.

400 to 500 years

 

see now your getting jiggy with it.

 

that tree will have been hedged/pollarded many many times over the centuries, and will not have adapted to stress via secondary thickening or root flares according to the axiom.

 

I DID say that stunted trees are different, as this one is. That birch has grown well, is vital, and over a hundred years old (no doubt)

 

what is clear is that we all have different views as to what makes a veteran.

 

so what do you want to do about this? anyone?

 

[Luke Quenby]

see now your getting jiggy with it.

 

that tree will have been hedged/pollarded many many times over the centuries, and will not have adapted to stress via secondary thickening or root flares according to the axiom.

 

I DID say that stunted trees are different, as this one is. That birch has grown well, is vital, and over a hundred years old (no doubt)

 

what is clear is that we all have different views as to what makes a veteran.

 

so what do you want to do about this? anyone?

 

[ATTACH]75033[/ATTACH]

 

Looks to me like part of an ancient woodland / woodbank that has been cut many times over but missed out on the regular coppicing cycles as it forms part of the old boundary...........I am making a lot of assumptions from one picture but based on that and what I know I would go ancient. Feel free to shoot me down now!

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

Looks to me like part of an ancient woodland / woodbank that has been cut many times over but missed out on the regular coppicing cycles as it forms part of the old boundary...........I am making a lot of assumptions from one picture but based on that and what I know I would go ancient. Feel free to shoot me down now!

 

I wont shoot you down! like it says in the advice notes, it isnt really something we can be prescice about, hence the variations in views reflecting this very issue.

 

it is not possible or desirable to put such a dynamic thing into convinient boxes.

 

the SKILL is in evaluating what is important to YOUR objectives, and knowing when something is deserving of extra special attention because it is biologicaly and eco systematicaly priceless.

 

eco system services are such a mis understood and undervalued issue, and trees are keystone species.

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

eco system services=

 

lets think about that defective limb with the cavity, there maybe no bats in it now, but its a good potential roost site, maybe not good enough for a maternity roost, but buts are migrants, nomads. they need stop gaps they will hunt in one area then once that zone has been hunted out they move on, it doesnt pay to stay too long, the more you hunt in one area the less food remains. bats need to manage resources very well indeed, they can ill afford to carry excess wieght or fly without good cause.

 

so we remove that cavity, and the bats cant overnight and catch all those oak moths, the oak moth population booms and the oaks are massivley defoliated, they gradualy get stressed and pathogens move in, and the system collapses.

 

that bat was doing us and the trees a great service for free, lets at least spare a thought to his needs.

[Fungus]

Does this Californian Jurupa Oak qualify as a veteran tree ?

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

more a clone, ancient genes yes, but veteran?

[sean freeman]

I agree with Tony but it is really important that more people realise just how varied the survival strategies of trees can be, it is just another aspect of ecology that is fascinating and personally I find it intriguing.

[dave888]

hiya its dave, im taught that oak are veteren at ?800, ancient over 1000, i love the smell of oak in the morning!