Base decay in eucalyptus

[Fungus]

1. wound sealants really, are we going backwards...

2. for fungi have within their arsenal the capacity to break down EVERY single chemical on this planet.

 

1. Come and have a look at our poplars colonized by Pholiota populnea, our elms by Hypsizygus ulmarius and Polyporus squamosus, our apple trees by Inonotus hispidus, Pholiota aurivella and Polyporus varius and our Acer and Pterocarya by Polyporus squamosus and Pleurotus dryinus, after their wounds had been treated some 15 years ago with sealants such as topsin, creating a perfect micro-climate for germination of always and everywhere present fungal spores.

2. Not just chemicals, rhizomorphs of Armillaria species are capable of altering radio-active material (Tsjernobyl) in such a way, that the energy stored in the caesium partially is set free to be used by the mycelium as a "nutrient" for development of new mycelial structures. And some species like Bjerkandera adusta, Hypholoma fasciculare and Mycena galericulata, are capable of producing chemicals such as polyaromatic hydrocarbons or organohalogens themselves to decompose wood with.

Edited August 15, 2011 by Fungus

[brothergrim]

wow i havent a clue what you guys were taking about its like an argument between a group of wizards just wish i could understand a tenth of it lol

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

wow i havent a clue what you guys were taking about its like an argument between a group of wizards just wish i could understand a tenth of it lol

 

If you want to have something broken down and elaborated on just use the quote button and then highlight the paragraph/sentence you want to know more about.

 

never feel you can not do this, some of us sometimes forget that there are others less up on the subject and may not understand but want to, so dont be shy and no shame in asking even mundane questions if YOU need and want to know what the hell we are talking about!

[treeseer]

ok then i shall try this quote button thingy:

 

"Then let me see you retain a lime with kretschmaria, or a horse chestnut with ganoderma australe"

 

I would if i could, but precious few limes and horsechestnuts. Plenty of susceptible trees with K deusta and gano are retained. Often, many mitigation options are practical and reasonable before Mr. Basil Kutz gets the call. Can anyone seriously suggest that the image of that euc with its 2mm of degraded tissue suggests the need for the chop?

 

"This bit is outdated, or i am just thinking before my time perhaps?"

 

It was from 10 years ago, as noted. Not totally outdated imho but the search goes on.

 

wound sealants really, are we going backwards...

 

No, the search just goes on, thinking after our time. Sorry topsin did not work, but even stringently screened Trichoderma variants do not work on cuts over 10 cm, as I heard from Francis S last month. What is the answer for larger wounds? I do not know.

 

"today the real edge in research is in the use of oils within the saws lubricant system to inoculate cut surfaces with fungi that are aggressively territorial, and whose successors are harmless saprophytic varieties."

 

Research has more than one edge i hope. How large a wound can this oil successfully colonise? How much gets sprayed around? I like handsaws better myself.

 

"We should not be looking to methods that are neither natural nor holistic."

 

We should look to what might work. The list is not so long tha twe can eliminate options that do not fit any paradigm, though natural and holistic (def.?) certainly sound best.

 

"I suggest looking toward the work of Paul Stamets regarding possible routes and ideas for research if you REALLY want to advance arboriculture."

 

Compelling routes, but not the only routes.

 

"Wounds are a natural process of a trees life, wounds found in nature are many times more complex and variable and often result in being colonised first by more benign fungi. This creates a complex micro environment that more problematic fungi have great difficulty circumnavigating. When we make large cuts albeit neatly to a branch bark ridge/collar we offer a large surface area with direct avenue to the ripe or heartwood volumes a scenario far more suited to wound parasites, like Polyporus squammosus, Ganodermas, Laetiporus etc."

 

I absolutely agree about this problem. One answer is to reduce branches instead of removing them, making smaller wounds. Sealants may be another answer, and my ears are wide open for whatever might seal unavoidable wounds.

 

"We all want to be better at what we do treeseer, and we are all trying, I will be frank, your style comes a cross as someone who has read extensively and feels ultra secure in that path of knowledge aquirement, and forthright in applying it."

 

secure and forthright enough for action--is there an alternative?--but cognizant of the inevitability of change, and the need to adapt, not to fads but when the evidence is sufficiently strong. Funny--R.E.M. is singing "I am Superman" right now. But I got no S on my chest, nor does anyone here.

 

"My advice is to accept there is soooooo very much more work to be done in this business and to realise that books are a moment in time and to be appreciated as such, but to never take all as gospel till you have seen it with your own eyes."

 

Well free advice is always worth at least the cost. In this case, it is very good--rest assured, i shall heed it! I often doubt even what I (think I) see.

 

'"As far as barrier zones and compartmentalisation are concerned, they are not the ultimate defence, and NEVER will be,"

 

Sometimes those walls are broken. Sometimes they are not.

 

"for fungi have within thier arsenal the capacity to break down EVERY single chemical on this planet."

 

This sounds like overgeneralization to my scientifically skeptical ears--which fungus are you describing?. How much of this have you seen with your own eyes? To be consistent should you not take your own advice, or have you just leaped from reason to faith? Trees have within their arsenals the capacity to resist rot. We've all seen that with our own eyes.

 

If you are speaking of inevitability in the longer term, then consider that EVERY tree can sink roots into humus, and grow out of those broken-down chemicals. Fungus serves the tree. The tree serves the fungus. Looks pretty balanced, to my imperfect eyes.

 

"BEWARE of relying on the compartmentalisation capacity of trees, especially within the context of thier individual natural neighbourhoods"

 

Relying on it may be a mistake, but working to support it is an arborist's role. BEWARE of exaggerating the power of decay, especially within the context of a tree with high vitality. Such a tree may be a neighborhood that decay fungi cannot afford, so they have to move into the low-rent district instead. Some fungus may save up all it can, but never afford the down payment on a healthy tree, let alone the mortgage and overhead.

 

It takes two to tango. Fungal strategies of wood decay in trees are trials of strength. May the strongest organism win. BEWARE believing in the power of fungus over trees.

 

That should clear things up--hey folks don't blame me--Gerrit said this was the place to preach!

[brothergrim]

If you want to have something broken down and elaborated on just use the quote button and then highlight the paragraph/sentence you want to know more about.

 

never feel you can not do this, some of us sometimes forget that there are others less up on the subject and may not understand but want to, so dont be shy and no shame in asking even mundane questions if YOU need and want to know what the hell we are talking about!

 

Thank you hamadryad, my knowledge is very,very basic and if i was to ask you to elaborate, you would bore yourself to tears .. I am however picking up some great things from your posts and im starting to look at things in more depth.

 

cheers again ben

[Arbor Logic]

It is late and I should not have this as my first post!... I have recently joined in response to the Sudden Euc thread and have spent the better part of a few days reading posts and familiarising myself with the prospective posters and gaining (if not truistically) a certain amount of understanding of your respective philosophies. Namely in this case Hamadryad, Fungus and the man formerly known as Monkey D . I have a great deal of respect for the comments placed upon this forum by you and of insights that come from people that are truly attuned to natural observations. It is people such as yourselves that would have held positions at the first societies of their respective sciences when science was first being tested.

It is for this that I wanted to make mention of ideals that I feel are incongruent and are not inherently "ecological" in that they are focused on a particular bent and a particular organism that you seem to all so keenly share a passion.

The observations that you have recorded and in the case of Gerrit, studied rigourously, only point to a single factor of the health of Gaia. Gerrit has mentioned links to the SoilFoodWeb of which the Director and founder is Dr Elaine Ingham, of which I am a devoted follower and student. I point this out because the holistic concepts of true plant health come from a balanced and diverse set of organisms. Dr Ingham shows us that in a microbiological world, where one organism has the upper hand, then balance, diversity and health is lacking!

The circumstances that allow for control of a host species in an environment whereby age should not be a mitigating factor suggests balance has been unfairly tipped.

In the case of forest vegetation, circumstances such as many of your threads suggest, should and do happen because breakdown has lead to a circumstance whereby conditions are such that certain organisms can benefit and utilize, weak, veteran, and poorly conditioned tissue.

To delight in this behaviour on trees within the urban environment is putting the cart a little before the horse as the conditions that have created these "habitats" for fungal bloom is almost certainly a condition of the human sickness. It is a little like saying colds are good and lets see if we can exacerbate them.

Dr Ingham once explained to me that it should be a fairly rare thing to see a FB because it suggests all the other organisms that should be there to keep it in check aren't doing their jobs (or aren't there).

To delight in fungus is a great thing and I seriously commend all of you on the way you are pioneering another great tool for human understanding of microbiological and vegetative unions. I just wanted to say that it is only another discipline that gets placed into the arsenal of knowledge that we have to weaponize ourselves against the damage that we are doing.

 

plus I just realized my avatar looks like crap

Edited August 16, 2011 by Arbor Logic

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

I was once told by a wise scientist to specialise in a chosen area, to be an authority on YOUR chosen subject and to take that even to a special subject within a subject.

 

I agree that much of the ills of trees in our age, are climate and human interaction dominated, be that direct physical damage, pollution altering the rhizosphere, including nitrification, which is our current big problem.

 

it is not however my specialism nor job to bang on and change the way we live, my focus is entirely on ensuring we learn to live with trees in even the densest urban setting, and to do so safely and without fear. i have a very deep seated love of the natural world and a desire to perpetuate "natural empathy" and eco/holoistic practices that are in keeping with my own beliefs and philosophies.

 

My methods thoughts and approach will always be tree/fungi/ecology in that order of merit and priority, because that is the order in which they should be prioritised for they all rely on each other, the trees and the fungi are what make and provide the habitat for the greatest percentage of diversity, and diversity is ALL our priorities. Bio diversity is the goose that lays our golden eggs.

 

I will NEVER be interested in sealants, they have no role within arboriculture, not in any area of it, but treeseer, you go knock yourself out and waste your time finding out why for yourself, and forgive me when in years to come we have this conversation again, and i smile as you say "you know what Hama, your not as stupid as you are cabbage looking.

 

There is good reason why sealants do not/cannot work, and im not going to waste my time repeating very old hat information or plain old common sense matters.

 

But while you're looking into sealants, think about what your trying to achieve, and remember that your 2 dimensional view is being applied to a three dimensional living breathing thing, crawling with MILLIONS of other living breathing things both externally and internally.

 

My hide is as thick as that on the rear of a black rhino, so i really have no fear what anyone thinks or says regarding my position, role, career or purpose, and Im certainly not going to judge anyone elses path.

 

treeseer, you and me have very different views and directions within OUR field (arboriculture) I respect you for your strength and determination, and hope youll achieve that which you seem to want to achieve.

 

I am already doing a great deal for arboriculture, but dont take it from me, ask my friends, and will continue to strive like you to improve and push forward our industry even if it is on a very, very small level, its all i can do.

 

"Judge a man by what he brings to your table":biggrin:

[APC]

Whoah.

[Stephen Blair]

Someones whacked it with a digger bucket years ago . fell fell fellity fell

[David Goss]

Someones whacked it with a digger bucket years ago . fell fell fellity fell

 

straight talkin stevie strikes again