Aerial rescue/Access lines??

[atree]

Hi,

 

Just wondering who has access lines in the tree whilst working in case of an emergency and from what size tree? (ie anything above 10m)

 

I work in a 2man crew and im the main climber and groundy has climbing kit but isnt a very competant climber,and i wouldnt trust him to rescue me tbh,

Company is all about health and saftey,have mentioned my concerns to foreman,

 

What should i do,my life on the line??

[Taupotreeman]

Had a lot to do with safety at the last outfit I worked for and on all the bigger jobs we tried to get a competent groundy along with the main climber but very rarely did I see an access line up a tree for speed. Now I work for myself and, because needs must, I work by myself a lot of the time there's no one to rescue me anyway should things turn to custard. Not great I know but that's the decision I've made short term. You're basically between a rock and hard place. You could approach the department of labour but don't expect any back up from them until things actually do go wrong. They have said to me that they can't do anything until there is an accident. More like they can't be bothered (but that's a whole other story). I reckon your best option apart from refusing to do the work, is to tell the boss you'd like a fully competant climber for the jobs you're not comfortable with. Basically set yourself a limit of what you are happy to do with a half pie climber on the floor. And always stick up an access line and have set of sharp spikes available on anything that's even remotely iffy. Even better if you can talk the boss in to giving you a couple of hours each week to practice rescues until you're confident your groundy can do the job. You probably know as well as I do that if you go to the boss all guns blazing you'll be out on your ear and fat chance the employment courts will do much on your behalf. It will probably boil down to how good a bloke the gaffer is.

 

Oh. and I have never known any company be all about health and safety when profit margins are tight. Heard that all before but safety usually comes down the pecking order behing profit and productivity. Or to get cheap ACC premiums (which ACC push hard even though they know they are being screwed by the big outfits).

Edited March 21, 2011 by Taupotreeman

[atree]

Thanks for the long reply,Im only on the crew so we make our daily target,do tricky/big stuff.We have 3 set crew (x2 3man,x1 2man crews) and the other crews all have competant climbers,

 

Its frustrating,will have a team meeting to sort it,

Cheers

[Taupotreeman]

In that case I reckon you best bet is to try and get the boss to allow you to have some down time to bring all the groundies up to spec. Treescape and Asplundh both have 6 monthly safety days. Aerial rescue from the tree manually and also bucket rescues are practised along with a first aid refresher. Asplundh particularly expects you to practice both once a week and sign a form to say you have done so. If you are meeting your targets I see no reason why the boss would say no. You can also point out it will give his groundies a bit more experience should he need them to tackle a bigger job one day. It only takes one or two hours a week to get the guys used to what is needed and in to a routine. If you set the access lines up for them you've done the hard part.

[atree]

Interesting,Yeah we practice altogether every 6 months.I think your right,stuck between a rock and a hard place.

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

No help to you guys in sunnier climes I'm afraid but here in the UK the requirement under the Work at Height Regs an employer must provide 'adequate' emergnecy contingencies incuding aerial rescue provision.

 

In the HSE AFAG 401/402 guidance, recently revised, they have bolstered the scetion that talks about aerial rescue provision requiring any nominated climber to be qualified AND 'competent', i.e. suitably expereinced and practiced. Simply holding a NPTC CS38 ticket is deemed adequate.

 

That said, unfortunately, when companies oftne present themslevs for 'ARB Approval' this aspect, AND planning/preparation on worksites, is oftne lacking and improvments are required beforre approval.

 

I know it's easier said than done but is it worth risking your neck for?

 

Take care out there..!

Paul

[Rupe]

"Simply holding a NPTC CS38 ticket is deemed adequate"

 

Is or is not deemed adequate??

[Paul Smith]

If your on a SRT line that is tied of at the base you just let the grounds man belay you down from the tree. Far quicker than waiting for him to climb and rescue you.

[Angus]

Just wondering who has access lines in the tree whilst working in case of an emergency and from what size tree? (ie anything above 10m)

For as long as I can remember, we've installed extra lines on jobs where a rescue system cannot be safely setup in a reasonable time. i.e. trees over 200ft, thick understory etc.

It is not often, but it forms part of recovery and emergency plans for some jobs.

 

I work in a 2man crew and im the main climber and groundy has climbing kit but isnt a very competant climber, and i wouldnt trust him to rescue me tbh,

Company is all about health and saftey,have mentioned my concerns to foreman,

 

What should i do,my life on the line??

Everyone seems to have their own opinion on it. Here is mine.

 

Hot debate has run on this exact issue for as long as I can remember. Its been difficult to discuss, especially if you represent small business. Training Providers and Large companies can take the moral high ground, and squash wholesome debate on the grounds of safety. Sadly, much of industry is affected by the emotional arguments put forward by those on the moral high ground.

 

Firstly you should identify whether you think it is reasonable for you have someone competent enough to perform a rescue, follow you around to each job, just in case.

For most jobs that would be as logical as suggesting an ambulance should follow you around on the roads, just in case you have a car accident.

 

The point Paul makes about the competency of "trained rescue climbers" is valid: The rescue climbing ticket MUST be of an operational standard.

Too often in practice, this seems to not be the case.

If the climber cannot perform a rescue under reasonable circumstances, they are NOT a rescue climber.

 

The increased pay they receive, and the illusion of safety hasn't actually improved the likelihood of you surviving your accident.

Don't let statistics fool you either - how many deaths in this industry are people disconnecting, and falling out of the tree?

Importantly, how many deaths could have been prevented had a rescue climber been on the ground?

What if the same effort was put into learner climbers gaining good skills, rather than receiving a ticket and being deemed operationally competent.

 

There is a lot of money in offering a low standard ticket, training providers around the world are cashing in on this demand. As in industry we seem caught under the illusion that these tickets and training are improving safety.

 

Often climbers that are inadequate to make daily climbers, are the ones that are going to perform the rescue. How can they be called rescue climbers?

Ambulance officers don't just get a first aid ticket....

 

Oh I could go on, and on, and on. Its all been said before. You've gotta do what feels safe for you. If you don't feel safe at work, something is wrong.

I encourage you to look past the illusion of safety a rescue ticket provides, be unemotional and factual. Don't get caught up in theoretical situations. Deal in facts.

[Angus]

For what it is worth, Graeme McMahon wrote an article for the Australian ArborAge on the topic of "Tree Rescue or Not Tree Rescue" last month.

The pdf tree rescue document on our website is directly from the magazine, and is an exert of the tree rescue rationale Graeme wrote years ago. There will be a text version on the website soon.