V.T.A symptoms "the chatty trees"

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

Your judgement on this (and perceived offence) is too often based on snapshots Tony.

 

You really need to read the entire script before drawing conlusion.

 

Too rash imo.

 

& that's what gets you misunderstood.

 

 

Take that as advise or however you want to read it, I know how it is intended.

 

.

 

I take everything as advice, dont get what you mean by the script though, saying the record shows, highlighting YOU with a sneaky on the end implies an awful lot!

 

I have a great deal of respect for the work of all of CofL, and wasnt going to let that go unanswered:sneaky2:

[David Humphries]

I take everything as advice, dont get what you mean by the script though, saying the record shows, highlighting YOU with a sneaky on the end implies an awful lot!

 

I have a great deal of respect for the work of all of CofL, and wasnt going to let that go unanswered:sneaky2:

 

 

All I'm saying is wait for the review of that particular piece of survey work. You are looking at a couple of photos which I've put up as tasters. It's pointless making a judgement on that alone.

 

It would unprofessional of me to go into detail before Helen puts out the article, which is based on a number of years work at different sites under various different controls.

 

 

.

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

All I'm saying is wait for the review of that particular piece of survey work. You are looking at a couple of photos which I've put up as tasters. It's pointless making a judgement on that alone.

 

It would unprofessional of me to go into detail before Helen puts out the article, which is based on a number of years work at different sites under various different controls.

 

 

.

 

 

Well David, no disrespect to you but sticking up a photo described like that and with control tree on it does not exactly help does it? Were here discussing what were shown, thats all we can do!

[treeseer]

Turning a lapsed pollard around only requires simply reduction and retrenchment methods, add some soil amendments if required, lay some mulch down and deter footfalls and grazing damage.

 

I would like to see exeriments done to see if fresh mulch can re adress the over nitrified situation and then as it matures buffer fluctuations, as I am convinced applications of FRESH woodchip mulch will do so. It has long been said that fresh mulch is bad, but nitrification is far worse.

 

Several studies show no harm from fresh mulch; up to 12", at LSU and Chicago parks. It's at the ISA site (which can be entered by any type of wo/man)

 

How would you like to see this updated? I'd definitely add a word about support systems sparing the less stable trees needless crown loss.

 

Retrenchment pruning NF

Retrenchment pruning is term coined by Paul Muir of Treework Environmental Practice to describe the technique that has been developed in the field of environmental arboriculture to imitate the natural process of ageing. Crown retrenchment is used to describe the way in which peripheral dieback occurs as the tree redirects energy and growth to the formation of a consolidated lower region of the crown.

Crown retrenchment pruning is used to extend tree viability, both in terms of vitality and stability, whilst retaining habitat features associated with ageing. Retrenchment pruning is a technique that can be used to reduce the potential for a fully mature, late-mature or ancient tree to collapse or ‘fall apart’ under its own weight due to excessive end weight on long or weakly attached limbs.

 

It is also applicable in trees where incipient decline appears to result from excessive transportation distances from the root system to the crown periphery. While this technique may have a general value, it is especially useful for managing formerly pollarded trees (lapsed pollards) and mature trees showing signs of dieback. Retrenchment pruning gives best results for suitable tree species and growth conditions.

 

The practice of retrenchment pruning involves the reduction of the tree height and the extent of crown growth over a protracted period of time. This usually involves at least three return treatments allowing re-growth to occur in the interim. This process is intended to promote early crown stabilisation and reduce the risk of traumatic structural failure by reducing the lever arm while at the same time increasing light penetration to the inner crown framework.

 

The process is intended to promote internal and lower crown rejuvenation through reducing apical dominance. This provides the means to redirect hormonal growth regulation (resulting in epicormic and re-iterative stimulation). Eventually retrenchment pruning will create a reduced crown framework over a period of time.

 

For trees with moderate to high vitality, the first stage of retrenchment pruning should avoid overall reduction by more than 20%. For trees with low vitality the first stage of retrenchment pruning is typically less than 10%. Where tree stability is already heavily compromised reduction levels should be sufficient to reduce the lever arm to an acceptable level.

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

Several studies show no harm from fresh mulch; up to 12", at LSU and Chicago parks. It's at the ISA site (which can be entered by any type of wo/man)

 

How would you like to see this updated? I'd definitely add a word about support systems sparing the less stable trees needless crown loss.

 

Retrenchment pruning NF

Retrenchment pruning is term coined by Paul Muir of Treework Environmental Practice to describe the technique that has been developed in the field of environmental arboriculture to imitate the natural process of ageing. Crown retrenchment is used to describe the way in which peripheral dieback occurs as the tree redirects energy and growth to the formation of a consolidated lower region of the crown.

Crown retrenchment pruning is used to extend tree viability, both in terms of vitality and stability, whilst retaining habitat features associated with ageing. Retrenchment pruning is a technique that can be used to reduce the potential for a fully mature, late-mature or ancient tree to collapse or ‘fall apart’ under its own weight due to excessive end weight on long or weakly attached limbs.

 

It is also applicable in trees where incipient decline appears to result from excessive transportation distances from the root system to the crown periphery. While this technique may have a general value, it is especially useful for managing formerly pollarded trees (lapsed pollards) and mature trees showing signs of dieback. Retrenchment pruning gives best results for suitable tree species and growth conditions.

 

The practice of retrenchment pruning involves the reduction of the tree height and the extent of crown growth over a protracted period of time. This usually involves at least three return treatments allowing re-growth to occur in the interim. This process is intended to promote early crown stabilisation and reduce the risk of traumatic structural failure by reducing the lever arm while at the same time increasing light penetration to the inner crown framework.

 

The process is intended to promote internal and lower crown rejuvenation through reducing apical dominance. This provides the means to redirect hormonal growth regulation (resulting in epicormic and re-iterative stimulation). Eventually retrenchment pruning will create a reduced crown framework over a period of time.

 

For trees with moderate to high vitality, the first stage of retrenchment pruning should avoid overall reduction by more than 20%. For trees with low vitality the first stage of retrenchment pruning is typically less than 10%. Where tree stability is already heavily compromised reduction levels should be sufficient to reduce the lever arm to an acceptable level.

 

all very well put Guy, but what I am thinking is a more involved document that goes a bit further than the last TEP/Paul muir/NF piece.

[treeseer]

all very well put Guy, but what I am thinking is a more involved document that goes a bit further than the last TEP/Paul muir/NF piece.

That WAS put very well--by Mr. Fay. (more cultured than my style). the NF referred to his authorship; i just pulled it off their site.

 

So how much further would you go, and in what directions? More involved = more details = more devilry trying to write the dam thing so it makes sense.

 

If you're waiting for someone else to express your ideas, don't hold your breath!

 

Retrenchment pruning NF 2003

Retrenchment pruning is a term coined by Paul Muir (Treework Environmental Practice) to describe the technique that has been developed in the field of environmental arboriculture to imitate the natural process of ageing. Crown retrenchment is used to describe the way in which peripheral dieback occurs as the tree redirects energy and growth to the formation of a consolidated lower region of the crown. Crown retrenchment pruning is used to extend tree viability, both in terms of vitality and stability, whilst retaining habitat features associated with ageing.

Retrenchment pruning is a technique that can be used to reduce the potential for a fully mature, late-mature or ancient tree to collapse or ‘fall apart’ under its own weight due to excessive end-loading on long or weakly attached limbs. It is also applicable in trees where incipient decline appears to result from excessive transportation distances from the root system to the crown periphery. While this technique may have a general value, it is especially useful for managing formerly pollarded trees (lapsed pollards) and mature trees showing signs of dieback. Retrenchment pruning gives best results for suitable tree species and growth conditions.

The practice of retrenchment pruning follows a detailed inspection, which assesses the viability of the tree in terms of current vitality, the probability of tree loss as a result of expected decline in vitality or from structural collapse. This assessment informs decisions as to whether retrenchment pruning is appropriate. If the tree is prone to imminent mechanical failure that threatens its viability then gradual retrenchment treatment would not be appropriate. In such cases an alternative method is suggested involving significant reduction to selected failure-prone limbs (see Read 2000, pp 42-43).

Crown retrenchment pruning on Quercus robur at Hatfield Forest, Sussex

Treework Environmental Practice | Arboricultural Management & Training, Tree Surveys, Bs5837 Survey, Conservation & Ecological Consultancy Page 3 of 4



Natural Fracture Pruning Techniques Neville Fay

Treework Environmental Practice April 2003

If the tree shows a moderate level of vitality and mechanical stability appears vulnerable in the long term, while being sufficient to support a moderately reduced crown structure in the short term, then retrenchment pruning may be carried out to restructure the framework.

The assessment therefore having appraised the viability of the tree, then specifies the first stage of treatment (which may involve as little as 10% reduction); sets an ultimate (target height above the bolling or from ground level), to which the crown will eventually be reduced; sets the return period (cycle) for future reductions (e.g. 3 to 5 years) and the duration of the treatment (i.e. the overall duration for the programme of treatment up to completion– usually between 12 to 30 years).

Crown retrenchment pruning on Fagus sylvatica at Epping Forest

The method is intended to stimulate internal and lower crown growth (rejuvenation) through reducing apical dominance to redirect hormonal growth regulation (resulting in epicormic and re-iterative stimulation). Eventually retrenchment pruning will create a reduced crown framework over a period of time.

For trees with moderate to high vitality, the first stage of retrenchment pruning should avoid overall reduction by more than 20%. For trees with low vitality the first stage of retrenchment pruning is typically less than 10%. Where tree stability is already heavily compromised reduction levels should be sufficient to reduce the lever arm to an acceptable level.

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

It was a very good start guy, no denying.

[treeseer]

It was a very good start guy, no denying.

So they did that much to start--does that mean it must be theirs to finish, too? Are you paying them for this or what? Cmon Croft, this ain't no tv show, get off ya aspirations and dance!

(to paraphrase a cuban gal i was ogling in a bar once)

 

How would you build on that to improve or advance it?

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

So they did that much to start--does that mean it must be theirs to finish too?

 

How would you build on that to improve or advance it?

 

No im not paying them, but these guys are the "leading experts" and widely respected, I am no academic.

 

I would need academic quals to do the job justice, and I will continue to work on that, its the only way forward.

[treeseer]

That's a sad sack of avoidance, a killer copout. Academic quals are gained by reading and writing--you need NO letters after your name to do the job justice. Those guys got to be respected leading experts by their fearless sharing of their work, not their schooling. You have been schooled by the best teachers of all--The Trees.

 

Writing, and a writer, gets respected, and published, by enduring review, which is not as fearful as one may conjure. Anyone can submit. You are young; you still have time. If you start with a paragraph addressing and advancing the most important area that you see, it'll grow. The hardest part for me is toning down the passion for the work long enough to study and communicate the science behind it.

Edited February 29, 2012 by treeseer