P.T.I recognised yeah or niegh?

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

copied from elswhere-

 

PTI is a recognised cert, at level 2, thats the whole point!

 

i know that because i was gutted to discover that my VTA elite training, though widely regarded as a BETTER training model is unrecognised, unlike the PTI which is recognised as a level 2, at court level too, as far as i was aware!

 

Lets go ask paul, cos now Im not certain!

 

I thought all this was clarified after the poll V bartholemew case!

__________________

hamadryad

 

so mr tech, whats the official word on the PTI?

[Paul Barton]

Hi Tony,

 

I have just phone the Arb Association to ask for their clarification on this. Nick Eden has told me that although the PTI is not an 'official' qualification (it is not on the National Qualifications Framework), it is recognised as a certificate of the appropriate level of competence required for surveying trees.

 

It is a short 'hands on' course and assessment so does not cover arboricultural knowledge to the same level as the Tech Cert or ND etc, but it is a valuable ticket to have as a professional tree surveyor.

 

Do you have anything to add to that Paul (Smith)?

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

copied from elswhere-

 

PTI is a recognised cert, at level 2, thats the whole point!

 

i know that because i was gutted to discover that my VTA elite training, though widely regarded as a BETTER training model is unrecognised, unlike the PTI which is recognised as a level 2, at court level too, as far as i was aware!

 

Lets go ask paul, cos now Im not certain!

 

I thought all this was clarified after the poll V bartholemew case!

__________________

hamadryad

 

so mr tech, whats the official word on the PTI?

 

Hama, THANK YOU for posting here so I didn't miss it!

 

The reference to 'level 2' in the P v B case refers to the tree inspector, NOT the level of qualification, and implies a 'competent' person, i.e. somoene with adeqaute training, qualification and experience as opposed to a level 1 person 'a generalist' (for completeness level 3 was the specialist.)

 

This was a common confusion at the time and was exacerbated when we at the AA suggested to landowners/estate managers that a level 2 tree inspector should, ideally, have a min. level 3 qualification...aghhhh!!!!!! BUT we also stressed the importance of relevant training, i.e. tree surveying course / VTA course / PTI course, AND experience (with ALL DUE RESPECT not as a tree surgeon/arborists BUT as a tree inspector undertaking detailed examinations...which of course many tree surgeons/arborists do very competently!)

 

Hop ethis clarifies things...a little!

 

Paul

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

Hi Tony,

 

I have just phone the Arb Association to ask for their clarification on this. Nick Eden has told me that although the PTI is not an 'official' qualification (it is not on the National Qualifications Framework), it is recognised as a certificate of the appropriate level of competence required for surveying trees.

 

It is a short 'hands on' course and assessment so does not cover arboricultural knowledge to the same level as the Tech Cert or ND etc, but it is a valuable ticket to have as a professional tree surveyor.

 

Do you have anything to add to that Paul (Smith)?

 

Hi Paul, thanks for the post!

 

Paul, not surprisingly, what Nick has advised is correct. The PTI is not a qualification 'per se' as it is not accredited on the NQF, or Q&CF (Quals & credits framework) as it is now. However it would be submissible as relevant training and when, for instance, I assess AA Technician Members apps with equivalent quals., i.e. not directly arb...ND Forestry / ND LAndscape etc., I would recognise PTI as training at level 3.

 

You are absolutely right in that the course is a short 'hands on', or rather pen loaded, course but I beleive it does in fact cover, certain aspects, of arb knowledge (mainly SHigo / Mattheck / trees & law) to the same level as Tech Cert albeit in a very summarised way designed to be a quick recap.

 

The course is essentially an opportunity to demonstrate competence at detailed tree inspections via a nationally recognised assessment process, i.e. Lantra Awards 'Integrated Training and Assessment' (ITA.) Clearly adequate underpinnig arb knowledge is essential to achieveing this and hence Tech Cert / ND etc. holders, OR indeed those with an equivalent level of arb knowledge as an actual qualification is NOT a prerequisite to accessing the course (although this was considered), are very well placed.

 

Now I've probably shot off on a tangent here and missed the point....

1. Does PTI stack up as a recognised arb qual against Tech Cert = probably not!

 

2. Does Tech Cert stack up as a recognised competence award for tree inspections against PTI = probably not!

 

The above is my opinion rather than the AAs but what I would strongly recommend i sthat IF you are serious about undertaking tree inspections and recording/reporting on a regular basis you consider both a recognised qual (min. level 3, i.e. ND Arb / Tech Cert etc.) AND recognised training (PTI / VTA etc.)

 

Right I'llgo now as laeday waffled too much!

 

Hope this to be of help.

 

Paul

[Mark Cattell]

The world of Arboriculture has finally moved on and in line with other professions, proven competence is a contract and liability requirement and the more recognised qualifications you have the better. If you have no or few professional qualifications, (I assume you have none) then you at a great disadvantage, those of us who have spent years working long hours while studying and working or living on the bare minimum whist attending full time education or even those who were lucky to have supporting family, then we are at an advantage (is that wrong?). I suggest that all persons that would like to get into the world of consultancy and surveying put in the hours get qualified and the get access to the jobs available. As a senior manager I select staff on both experience and qualifications, if you have none or little then you are limited. I also have in mind when posting messages on open forums that (like myself) potential employers are watching and taking note.

 

FYI. I have also attended courses that in hindsight where a waste of my time and money.

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

The world of Arboriculture has finally moved on and in line with other professions, proven competence is a contract and liability requirement and the more recognised qualifications you have the better. If you have no or few professional qualifications, (I assume you have none) then you at a great disadvantage, those of us who have spent years working long hours while studying and working or living on the bare minimum whist attending full time education or even those who were lucky to have supporting family, then we are at an advantage (is that wrong?). I suggest that all persons that would like to get into the world of consultancy and surveying put in the hours get qualified and the get access to the jobs available. As a senior manager I select staff on both experience and qualifications, if you have none or little then you are limited. I also have in mind when posting messages on open forums that (like myself) potential employers are watching and taking note.

 

FYI. I have also attended courses that in hindsight where a waste of my time and money.

 

Warhammer, tahnks for the post!

 

Time to bear my soul to all...but tis the seaosn of goodwill remember (plesae!)

 

I have a mid-90s Tech Cert, nothing like to the same level/depth/intensity in reality as the recent Tech Certs, and I tried my hand at the PD Arb but only got 4 of the 6 units so couldn't proceed to the management day without resits etc. but I couldn't commit to further study for various reasons. However the knowledge I gained with Dave through studying was extremely valuable and still make the course worthwhile IMO.

 

Oh and I have got PTI (but I did have to do a retake to get the required 80% or above to go on and deliver the course as my original score was 75%.)

 

I'm sorry you've attended course deemed a waste of time and I sincerely hop ethat wasn't one we delivered. MORE importnatly, if so, PLEASE feedback so we can review things...thank you!

 

Cheers..

Paul

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

The world of Arboriculture has finally moved on and in line with other professions, proven competence is a contract and liability requirement and the more recognised qualifications you have the better. If you have no or few professional qualifications, (I assume you have none) then you at a great disadvantage, those of us who have spent years working long hours while studying and working or living on the bare minimum whist attending full time education or even those who were lucky to have supporting family, then we are at an advantage (is that wrong?). I suggest that all persons that would like to get into the world of consultancy and surveying put in the hours get qualified and the get access to the jobs available. As a senior manager I select staff on both experience and qualifications, if you have none or little then you are limited. I also have in mind when posting messages on open forums that (like myself) potential employers are watching and taking note.

 

FYI. I have also attended courses that in hindsight where a waste of my time and money.

 

1) You assume correct, i have NO qualifications whatsoever.

 

2) No it isnt wrong, but is it fair also?

 

Warhammer, do you honestly believe that spending two years on an ND would add anything to what i already have?

 

What would that teach me? I love learning, on a level few can sustain but to go backwards just to prove to an employer, or judge:001_huh:

 

 

invent an assesment, say a 2 week job, price it at 5K or even more and I will be the first to apply. Maybe Mr Dawson could do this?

[Pommie]

Hamma

 

Have you though of just getting the syllabus and taking the exams for the Tech cert, You clearly have a great deal of knowledge and with maybe a little focus on things you may be weak on I am sure you could gain an excellent pass.

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

Hamma

 

Have you though of just getting the syllabus and taking the exams for the Tech cert, You clearly have a great deal of knowledge and with maybe a little focus on things you may be weak on I am sure you could gain an excellent pass.

 

yes thought about that one lots!

 

im on it:thumbup1: