What do you reckon to this?

[forestry]

You miss the initial point in that the text of the Burnswood site clearly implies that non kiln-dried firewood is not seasoned and hence there is general agreement here that that is blatent rubbish and is misleading.

 

 

It was not the initial point I was commenting on.

 

Of course anyone marketing their timber will claim it is better than their competitors as long as they do that with facts that can be backed up.

 

I have made claims on my on my site that my firewood is "premium", you may not agree with that but i am within the bounds of the law to say that, so why would I not. I claim a lot of merchants sell green or partially seasoned firewood which has a higher moisture content, again you might not, but that is fact, I do not say how many, only that a lot do. That is the hard fact of marketing, make it sound better than your competitors. Heineken make their beer sound better than their competitors, "probably the best in the world". Their competition probably do not agree, but hey thats business, and to quote a rather apy phrase-

 

If you dont like the heat in the kitchen....

[gensetsteve]

Hi forestry, welcome to the forum. Do you own the burnswood site ?

[TimberCutterDartmoor]

To quote the site: Blatant lies in red!

 

"The Wood From The Trees - What Makes Good Wood Fuel

 

There are three basic categories of wood fuels:

 

Recently felled firewood / logs

This form of wood fuel is by far the most common currently available in the UK. It contains between 60% and 90% moisture (in other words water and sap) and will at best provide an average heat out put of only 1.0 kW/h per kg. This is the least carbon neutral of all the wood fuels, as it incurs the same amount of CO2 to retrieve, process and distribute, as other forms of wood fuel, but produces a fraction of the energy. This lack of energy (heat) during the combustion process has other significant disadvantages, as the combination of low burning temperatures and high moisture content causes a heavy build up of tarry resin on the inside of flues and liners, a common cause of chimney fires. This type of residue is notoriously difficult to remove due to its viscus and sticky consistency. (Generally stove manufactures do not approve of this type of fuel, for use in their appliances, which can potentially lead to warranty issues). There are many unscrupulous firewood and log traders who are claiming that their wood is seasoned, however this has been debatable claim for many years.

 

It takes a minimum of 3 years to season hardwood logs in a dry well ventilated barn or shed. All hardwood air dries at an average and uniform rate of 0.25 cm (1”) per annum, so for example a 6 inch diameter log would take about 3 years to season. This rate of drying can only be achieved, if the wood is carefully stacked in such a way, so as to maintain a good air flow throughout the drying / seasoning period. The logistics of achieving this in any form of viable scale is just not plausible.

 

Kiln dried hardwood logs

This form of wood fuel, provided it has been dried in a kiln powered by wood waste or dried in a solar kiln, incurs the same amount of CO2 to retrieve, process and distribute as freshly felled logs

but produces far more heat energy. On average 4.5 kW/h per kg, that’s 4.5 times more heat than the freshly felled (unseasoned) logs. This is directly due to its low moisture content of between 15% and 20%. This type of product is significantly more expensive that freshly felled (unseasoned) logs due to the kiln investment costs and the time it takes to process. However when you consider that there is at least 4.5 times more heat energy per kg, the math is not hard to do. The other huge advantage is that this type of fuel burns so efficiently that virtually no deposits will left in the flue, and the natural deposits that are left are dry and easy to remove when swept.

 

Wood briquettes

Are made using the same basic manufacturing methods, however the species of woods used, the shape of the briquettes, the suitability and performance in each appliance can vary. Clean virgin timber

by-products from the sawmill and wood working industries are, instead of going to land fill (where they would decompose and produce methane) are being used to manufacture very dry, clean and reliable wood fuels for use in all forms of wood burning and multi-fuel appliances

 

This clean timber residue is first dried and then compacted under very high pressure and heat to form a briquette, (nugget, puck or pellet). During the process a natural component found in all wood called lignin is produced in liquid form, which when cooled solidifies bonding the wood fibers together in a dense solid form (agglomeration). So no artificial chemicals or binders are required to produce these products. A good quality wood briquette will have a moisture content well below 10%. Generally the lower the moisture content the higher the heat output. On average a good quality wood briquettes will produce a heat output of between 4.9 kW/h per kg and 5.6 kW/h per kg. They are clean easy to handle and store, they’r easy to light and produce very little ash (so the grate doesn’t need cleaning out very day). From a cost point of view they cost slightly less than the kiln dried hardwood logs and have a higher energy content, making them good value for money."

 

So what about the plenty of people who have invested thousands to locally produce good quality seasoned hardwood to low moisture levels? I felled some sycamore 24 months ago; it has been barn stored before being split 10 months ago. Yesterdays moisture readings were all below 19% (including the inside of a freshly opened piece)...

[gensetsteve]

Or as a customer said " people like a log I cant be bothered to get up and down all night putting that dung stuff on" We sold brickettes and still do to see what people thought before we spent anymore money on processsors etc. The take up was very slow and we lost interest. They have there place and some customers have a few bags now and then. We get flooded with orders for seasoned beech.

[County4x4]

Or as a customer said " people like a log I cant be bothered to get up and down all night putting that dung stuff on" We sold brickettes and still do to see what people thought before we spent anymore money on processsors etc. The take up was very slow and we lost interest. They have there place and some customers have a few bags now and then. We get flooded with orders for seasoned beech.

 

We use and sell briquettes, and have plenty of customers who now burn nothing else. Most of them find they don't have to "get up and down all night" putting briquettes in the stove as they last so long - we have several regulars who report that two or three of ours will last an entire evening in their stoves - and I always tell people to go steady with them.

 

Of course there are briquettes and briquettes - some are frankly rubbish, and while appearing cheaper on paper, if they only last half as long they work out more expensive.

 

Many customers also appreciate that they are always going to get exactly the same performance. We hear loads of stories along the lines of "well we had some good logs off this guy, but the second lot he bought were nowhere near as good" With briquettes they know that they will be dry, will light easily, will chuck a load of heat out, and will be clean burning. They also appreciate that they can get a whole winters worth of fuel stacked on one pallet - not taking up half the garden! And of course quite a few customers get a warm fuzzy feeling from the fact thatthey're a recycled product.

 

Each to their own though I guess - and I have no arguments at all to pick with anyone selling decent quality woodfuel of whatever sort - it's all a damn sight better than coal or smokeless in my book, and that's the main thing!

 

Cheers,

 

Andy

[forestry]

We use and sell briquettes, and have plenty of customers who now burn nothing else. Most of them find they don't have to "get up and down all night" putting briquettes in the stove as they last so long - we have several regulars who report that two or three of ours will last an entire evening in their stoves - and I always tell people to go steady with them.

 

Of course there are briquettes and briquettes - some are frankly rubbish, and while appearing cheaper on paper, if they only last half as long they work out more expensive.

 

Many customers also appreciate that they are always going to get exactly the same performance. We hear loads of stories along the lines of "well we had some good logs off this guy, but the second lot he bought were nowhere near as good" With briquettes they know that they will be dry, will light easily, will chuck a load of heat out, and will be clean burning. They also appreciate that they can get a whole winters worth of fuel stacked on one pallet - not taking up half the garden! And of course quite a few customers get a warm fuzzy feeling from the fact thatthey're a recycled product.

 

Each to their own though I guess - and I have no arguments at all to pick with anyone selling decent quality woodfuel of whatever sort - it's all a damn sight better than coal or smokeless in my book, and that's the main thing!

 

Cheers,

 

Andy

 

Andy, A good balanced view, your last paragraph in particular.

 

No, I am not the owner of Burnswood.

[gensetsteve]

I am completely for brickettes . Same profit as logs, no backache, no standing in the rain, no 10k invested in cordwood 12 months before selling. Would be interested in buying a small sample if you are at a show. We have tried verdo and hotmax . I will supply what ever the customer wants.

[forestry]

Timbercutterdartmoor,

 

"So what about the plenty of people who have invested thousands to locally produce good quality seasoned hardwood to low moisture levels? I felled some sycamore 24 months ago; it has been barn stored before being split 10 months ago. Yesterdays moisture readings were all below 19% (including the inside of a freshly opened piece)... "

 

 

 

So what about them ?

[forestry]

I am completely for brickettes . Same profit as logs, no backache, no standing in the rain, no 10k invested in cordwood 12 months before selling. Would be interested in buying a small sample if you are at a show. We have tried verdo and hotmax . I will supply what ever the customer wants.

 

Genetsteve,

 

I imported Latvian RUF briquettes, which although I sold several pallets were too crumbly and expanded.

 

I have trialled at least another 6 types by giving out free trial packs to customers in return for feedback. I have now pretty well made my mind up on the Verdo ones. Clean, no flaking and although they state 8-10mc the last lorry load are nearer 0 - 3%mc.

 

In the UK we burn far less briquettes than almost all our european neighbours, I firmly believe in the UK we are 5 - 10 years behind the rest of europe in regards to consumer knowledge of woodfuels. This I believe will build up pace in the next few years and those of us who do not consider briquettes and kiln drying will be left behind. This is of course is only my opinion.

[County4x4]

I do sell sample packs of briquettes if you want to try before you buy in bulk.

 

I can send up to three packs wrapped together with UPS via Interparcel for £8.22, so a total of £20.22 will get three packs - 30 briquettes and approximately 30kg direct to your door.

 

Sorry guys - but unlike the outfit at the top of this thread, I just can't bring myself to charge you over £9 per pack PLUS carriage - as I wouldn't sleep at night! So £4 a pack is as far as I'll go! My bulk pricing means that you can make more from them than I do.

 

As I said, I've trialled most of the briquettes currently available, and I reckon we have the best of the bunch in our premium type. Our economy ones are more similar to most of the competition in terms of performance - though as with all briquettes from a piston type machine, they do the expanding and collapsing thing, which our premium ones don't do at all.

 

Cheers,

 

Andy