Inclusional arboriculture- from the top

[BatiArb]

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Well it has been an enjoyable catch up this morning. Last nights posts on this thread were thought provoking and amusing. A fantastic contribution to stimulate a fulfilling life. I find agreement on both sides but equal differences. This is the way of life isn't it. Things are always the same and different at the same time.

 

A word to Tony (both)-

 

When I dipped into the world of morality and ethics it did not take me long to realise that: Whatever you believe, or believe you believe, you will find an equal and opposite set of beliefs somewhere in the world (or on ArbTalk:biggrin:). Whatever you stand for, someone else stands against it. What's so great about that? You might think about it like an arm wrestle: As two people pit their strengths against one another, each grows from it. When you realise that other people have their own values, spiritual or scientific ideas or idealism's and that this actually helps you strengthen your own, you might find yourself more able to honour and embrace those who believe something different from you.

 

I do think that the mere act of labeling something like inclusional thinking naturally creates its own barriers and boundaries that inevitably contradict the very philosophy behind it. This whole thread has been a testimony to that very issue. It seams to be a human obsession with order, a need or desire to defy entropy you might say.......

 

Our existence equally defines and defies the universal nothingness at the same time..... This is the ultimate and universal paradox.

 

I would subscribe to the saying said to be derived from the ancient Egiptians that says: Spirit without matter is expressionless, and matter without spirit is motionless. The two together make up existence as we know it.......

 

I think you could say that the ultimate in inclusionality is equilibrium it could therefore follow that entropy is an inclusive process.

 

To fully subscribe to inclusionalism so we need to dissolve our resistance and give up the fight that defines our existence?

 

We should surely be celebrating our individual uniqueness that makes our self-aware consciousness so rewarding and essential, but at the same time maintaining an equal and opposite acknowledgement of our inseparable connection with everything around us.

 

 

 

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[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

Andrew makes some really good points here-

 

one thing I would like to say is that i do not wish in anyway shape nor form to alter anyone's beliefs or perspectives, I wish only to offer a path to an appreciation of life and to offer a more interesting route down the road less travelled.

 

As soon as we apply a name to a thing we describe it, and as andrew points out, we give it a boundary, but boundary does not have to be a negative term. A boundary can be receptive or repulsive. epidermis is a boundary it is open to both positive and negative influences, be they chemistry or others.

 

one thing is certain, that life as we currently are programmed to understand, in whatever programs you set out on, be they Darwinian, creationist or other, soon all will have their boundaries less defined and slowly dissolved. Not by force, or persuasions, but by mindful evolutionary change.

 

slowly but surely, those that have recognised this are beginning to "disconnect" with pre conceived ideas and ideals, imposed upon us before we was even aware of ourselves.

 

This way of thinking is going to be a new way of living, one that will almost certainly see the much needed evolution not of the body, but of the mind.

 

That is a thought that inspires me, it has lifted me from the despair of the "human condition" and almost certain demise of humanity, it elevates my inner chemistry and makes me feel that there is a brighter life awaiting future generations.

 

This link was sent to me via a friend, a kindrid spirit so to speak, and it sums up this mindful evolutionary process so perfectly im amazed I haven't seen it before given my current interests!

 

Please take the time to watch this interview, if this video still fails to "make a connection" then i guess i am paddling upstream in a treacle tart:lol:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYYXq1Ox4sk]YouTube - ‪Bruce Lipton ' The Power Of Consciousness'‬‏[/ame]

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

Alan Rayner: essays and talks

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

KarmaTube: Mother Trees Connect the Forest

[face cord]

Hama

 

Im not really a believer in this new age religion stuff, but I have read the link in original post & skimmed through this interesting thread.

 

From the review I read of it this book sounds abit like what you are talking about. It was a negative review of the book, but the book may be of interest to you as it seems to cover some of the the ideas mentioned.

 

Scientists, theologians, and philosophers have all sought to answer the questions of why we are here and where we are going. Finding this natural basis of life has proved elusive, but in the eloquent and creative Into the Cool, Eric D. Schneider and Dorion Sagan look for answers in a surprising place: the second law of thermodynamics. This second law refers to energy's inevitable tendency to change from being concentrated in one place to becoming spread out over time. In this scientific tour de force, Schneider and Sagan show how the second law is behind evolution, ecology,economics, and even life's origin.

 

 

[ame]http://www.amazon.com/Into-Cool-Energy-Flow-Thermodynamics/dp/0226739376[/ame]

 

Or it might be of being a different but similar book i'll have to check the review again

[face cord]

Doesn' Inclusional just mean = a natural ecosystem?

 

Also the way its talked about it sounds abit like a mystical component of the Gaia Hypothesis idea.

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

At its core is the view that the concept of darwinian evolution theory set wheels in motion that lead to the way we look at things today, it set us up in a new way of thinking about the world us as "special" and seperate. Now rather than being a part of nature, we are moving further and further away from the way we used to be, as we strive to win in this rat race, this dog eat dog, survival of the fittest mindset we are losing not just our compassion for mankind but for nature too, and the further we seperate from nature and the more we pursue the objectivist framework the greater becomes our loss of natural empathy, compassion and sense of nieghbourhood.

 

It is not religion, it is merely a way of retaining and re invigorating all that makes us human, a way of thinking that makes more sense of what being human really means, because science alone without artistic or spiritual connection, without feel, without intuition is not human, and its a slippery slope of mind.

[face cord]

it set us up in a new way of thinking about the world us as "special" and seperate. Now rather than being a part of nature, we are moving further and further away from the way we used to be

 

Evolution currently isn't even the mainstream world beleive belief creationism still is.

 

I thought evolution was all about being part of nature as it shows we evolved from a common ancestor with all the other mammals i.e that humans are just super intelligent apes & not seprate from the rest of life.

 

You mentionin the rat race makes me think how could this inclusional change of thought proceses impact the reality of everday life, i.e are you saying it could manisfest itself in the way we organized society.

 

 

 

Some kind of green revolution in living with nature, the end of modern cosumer capitalism, holding property & goods in common like some amazonian tribes do traditionally?

 

Sorry im very skeptical of utopian visions

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

 

Sorry im very skeptical of utopian visions

 

it is exactly that mindset that stops the possibilities:001_smile:

 

 

Evolution- what drives it?

 

is it

 

A) predator prey relationships

 

OR

 

B) Niche/hole dynamics?

[treeseer]

Evolution- what drives it?

 

is it

 

A) predator prey relationships

 

OR

 

B) Niche/hole dynamics?

 

Ah here I think you hit on the question, but I'm not sure this is contrary to darwinianism or the scientific method, properly applied. right to say that we are best served when we pull back and suspend judgment and view things not in black and white.

 

Painting mental pictures with all the colors of the wind, as Pocahontas put it (that'll gag the old-agers!) This is a tenet of Objectivism, btw, as some define it. Miss Rand's version, more than Mr. Polanyi's, I suspect.