HSE Chainsaw Accident Consultation

[Marc]

One employer I once worked for said to me that he could'nt bare to send someone out on a job if he did'nt think they were upto it, and if they had an accident he would feel personally responsable.

As such if he in any way felt someone was a danger to themselves or others then they would'nt be part of the team.

 

He was very good at judge'ing his workers strengths and weaknesses, in over 25years of commercial arb work his company accident record was the lowest i've come across.

[Ian Leach]

I would say it is down to inexperience eg. just passing and they think they know everything. They should make it compulsory that when diy chainsaws are sold ppe should be part of the package.

There is also a lot of pressure to get jobs finished quicker, eg; some employers set a day rate you have to meet but if they under price a job to get it still takes the same time. so you have to work quicker to do it so you earn your rate. [ If it makes sence to anyone].

[Quickthorn]

Inexperienced users seem to be coming up a lot here, but I read a while ago that one of the biggest groups who suffer accidents are in their late 30s/early 40s with 10+ years under their belt. Complacency must be up there pretty close to inexperience.

[Amelanchier]

I know I used to rush things in winter to beat the darkness.

 

Another thing I'd be interested in is what the HSE propose to do about accidents caused by commercial pressures??? I'm not sure there is anything that can practicably be done.

[Ian Leach]

I think what i'm trying to say, is in my experience pressure has a lot to do with it . Try beening the only one qualified in your team pressure of doing the job itself, trying to watch the muppets your working with aswell . It makes your work load twice as hard . In a way I'm lucky I got out of it , but the way I got out wasn't so lucky.

[Marc]

I think what i'm trying to say, is in my experience pressure has a lot to do with it . Try beening the only one qualified in your team pressure of doing the job itself, trying to watch the muppets your working with aswell . It makes your work load twice as hard . In a way I'm lucky I got out of it , but the way I got out wasn't so lucky.

 

 

Whose fault is that in a situation like you explain? Is it the employers fault for putting to much pressure on a team to complete a task to make a profit? Or the team member who has an accident trying to do the job quickly?

[conkers]

Agreed.

 

I do a mixture of work, most of it involves big machines and big trees, we work hard and fast to be productive and competitive. I've seen less accidents due to experience and good team work.

 

In my experience i've worked with other outfits, that try to be highly productive pushing inexperienced teams to produce a high volume of work, this has caused accidents, but its all down to lack of experience and poor team work.

 

In summary I don't think pressure to be commercially productive plays a huge role in accidents, not having the experience to know your pushing yourself to hard and are fatigued is.

 

So I think the blame can in part be laid on the employer, for underpricing then expecting to much, or for pushing inexperienced teams to do jobs which expose them to accidents.

 

Underpricing is an issue if your trying to compete with tree teams working for very little just to keep going.

I worked for a reputable company in Kent straight after getting my tickets and I didnt know much.

I was slow, over cautious and could not dismantle, ie use rigging.

I was soon arriving at jobs finding large dismantles to work on and turning them down.

New climbers need to be guided by the experienced not thrown in at the deep end, under pressure with no knowledge of timber weights, etc.

So if you are new to the industry and your not sure about the work, under pressure- just refuse to do it until you have seen and worked with others who have a few years under their belts.

[Ian Leach]

Whose fault is that in a situation like you explain? Is it the employers fault for putting to much pressure on a team to complete a task to make a profit? Or the team member who has an accident trying to do the job quickly?

 

I think no one should be put in that situation especially with inexperienced people, surely it goes smoother when you have someone experienced. At least you can trust them to sned out and chip brash for example. Not worrying about if they've gone through the chipper. surely its not your fault because your ex employer can't be arsed to get someone decent in. A lot of people try and cut corners and cost but not when it comes to saftey please. The h.s.e only see people like this, the good hard working people end up getting punished for it higherinsurance more regs for example.

[Charlieh]

i have to say i think agricultural chainsaw regs should be a lot tighter, i know most the farmers round me laugh at me putting chainsaw trousers and boots on, they dont even wear eye/ear protection (finally got my old man to get some PPE trousers) but i dont know of any of the farming community that wear any ppe at all, also there is a loop hole regarding training if its on your own farm (which is horrific quite frankly) i think everyone should have to have training of some type.

 

other thing is most farm chainsaw use in my experience is either windblowns or hanging out of a telehandler bucket to do low branches round field edges (potentially two of the most dangerous practises without training/guided experience)

[Andy Collins]

How can the inexperienced become experienced without being sent out to do jobs at the limit of their capabilities? I've worked with some very inexperienced people, and yes they take far longer to do the job, but they get there in the end. The biggest issue then is the cost to the company, ie novice takes 3 times as long to to the job, than an old hand. This is the sort of trade that is very tricky for the inexperienced, as no 2 jobs are the same, no 2 trees are the same, and so the more saw time one can get the better. I think many companies do put pressure on the inexperienced, or at least make them feel uncomfortable if they are out of their depth, and of course the old macho stuff kicks in too.

As for the experienced having accidents, as said above, complacency and distraction are probably more to blame, as well as having to rush jobs at the end of the day, rather than go back tomorrow.