Head scratcher tpo or not?

[beechhunter]

Bit of a head scratcher,

Got an ash to take down in a garden homeowner states deeds say the tree has tpo on it but looking on the councils online tpo map the tree isn't plotted and thus no tpo order but an application was made on the tree in 2009 which was for pruning and was refused. Rung the planning department they have confirmed same as me, that the tree's not plotted but it does have history but can not find tpo order. My feeling would be take photos of said tree and then remove the planning department wants me to email the tree officer to gain some clarification but if I do is this then is it going to alert the tree officer to the mistake? Looking for other people's opinions 

[Muddy42]

When did they buy the property?  This is normally the point that a homeowner gets told about TPOs through searches - formal questions asked to the council that can be relied on.

 

I think I'd get the homeowner to ask (in writing) as its less likely to raise alarm than an arborist ringing up. If they get an email reply saying No and you have a print out of the map showing nothing you should be OK.

[john87]

6 hours ago, beechhunter said:

Bit of a head scratcher,

Got an ash to take down in a garden homeowner states deeds say the tree has tpo on it but looking on the councils online tpo map the tree isn't plotted and thus no tpo order but an application was made on the tree in 2009 which was for pruning and was refused. Rung the planning department they have confirmed same as me, that the tree's not plotted but it does have history but can not find tpo order. My feeling would be take photos of said tree and then remove the planning department wants me to email the tree officer to gain some clarification but if I do is this then is it going to alert the tree officer to the mistake? Looking for other people's opinions 

The planning people will already have tipped off the tree lot.. If no TPO, best act quickly then..

How do you know the council lot will not do a "backdated" TPO as the law and councils are two entirely separate things..

john..

[Kylus Sylvestris]

The previous 2009 application will be on file - check the online planning portal. The refusal notice has to state the TPO to which it applies. 

[ClintG]

Was is refused or withdrawn? I've seen similar in which tree work was applied for but the tree had no TPO, planning will show the records but not give a reason why it was withdrawn, in this case because there was no TPO. Just a thought

[Anno]

On 22/06/2023 at 17:23, john87 said:

The planning people will already have tipped off the tree lot.. If no TPO, best act quickly then..

How do you know the council lot will not do a "backdated" TPO as the law and councils are two entirely separate things..

john..

Not the Council I work for and not my local TO's either.

[Ben_Mason_Arb]

Try and get hold of the local tree officer whose patch the tree is on and explain, get a definitive answer from them. 

[Cross cut sore]

Check if TPO was provisional. May have expired. Consider if tree still worthy of TPO? Ask to revoke if not and can justify/give solid reasoning. 

[Chris at eden]

On 22/06/2023 at 17:23, john87 said:

The planning people will already have tipped off the tree lot.. If no TPO, best act quickly then..

How do you know the council lot will not do a "backdated" TPO as the law and councils are two entirely separate things..

You can’t back date a TPO.  They have to go through legal and only take effect once served irrespective of the date on them.   Councils are generally squeaky clean when it come to the law.  

[Chris at eden]

On 22/06/2023 at 13:41, Muddy42 said:

When did they buy the property?  This is normally the point that a homeowner gets told about TPOs through searches - formal questions asked to the council that can be relied on.

Not always. I met a solicitor a few years ago that had been doing property conveyancing for over 20 years. He’d never heard of a TPO. I thought he was joking at first but it held up the house sale as the seller hadn’t complied with a tree replacement condition. 
 

On 22/06/2023 at 13:41, Muddy42 said:

 

I think I'd get the homeowner to ask (in writing) as its less likely to raise alarm than an arborist ringing up. If they get an email reply saying No and you have a print out of the map showing nothing you should be OK.

I agree with the in writing thing but it shouldn’t make a lot of difference who asks. I never took that into consideration in my TO days. it doesn’t really affect the expediency test