Are you sure you know about trees and risk???

[spuddog0507]

Well thats 15 mins of my life i wont get back, 

[daltontrees]

On 27/11/2021 at 17:45, Peter Sterken said:

Too often, arboriculture has rigidly focused on easy-to-understand, but simplistic and erroneous theories. Perhaps partially because a lot of people have made money thanks to them (which is totally understandable and respectable, in a sense).
However... if we stay within the limits of those theories, then our mind will possibly not be able to devise the path of evolution. Read here the article Nature on tree risk assessment

 

Rigorous article, but heavy going. I have nearly no experience of palm trees, I don't know how they behave compared to woody trees.

I totally agree about dubious grey literature and floppy editing, unfortunately the trend is towards unreviewed articles promoted by commercial or other vested interests. Those intersts must be delighted when they become 'truth'. Advertisers have doen it since the dawn of civilisation.

[Peter Sterken]

26 minutes ago, daltontrees said:

Rigorous article, but heavy going. I have nearly no experience of palm trees, I don't know how they behave compared to woody trees.

I totally agree about dubious grey literature and floppy editing, unfortunately the trend is towards unreviewed articles promoted by commercial or other vested interests. Those intersts must be delighted when they become 'truth'. Advertisers have doen it since the dawn of civilisation.

Thanks Jules!

[Peter Sterken]

27 minutes ago, spuddog0507 said:

Well thats 15 mins of my life i wont get back, 

When I see your comment: likewise 😂

But: why would Nature, for God's sake, publish an article that would bore @spuddog0507 ? Mysteries of the universe.... 🤣

[spuddog0507]

10 minutes ago, Peter Sterken said:

When I see your comment: likewise 😂

But: why would Nature, for God's sake, publish an article that would bore @spuddog0507 ? Mysteries of the universe.... 🤣

Personally i dont see the point in that report, coconut palms and date palms i am very very unlikely to come across working in commercial forestry in the north of the  UK, Been in the job 40 yrs and on the verge of retiring, But one thing i can tell you is it dont matter how many reports like that are written, We as the human race will never know every thing about how a tree reacts when under stress from either wind or in the felling process as every tree weather it be Palms , Larch, Ash, Oak etc they all react different, and not one scientific report like that will ever be 100% riight, 

[daltontrees]

41 minutes ago, spuddog0507 said:

Personally i dont see the point in that report, coconut palms and date palms i am very very unlikely to come across working in commercial forestry in the north of the  UK, Been in the job 40 yrs and on the verge of retiring, But one thing i can tell you is it dont matter how many reports like that are written, We as the human race will never know every thing about how a tree reacts when under stress from either wind or in the felling process as every tree weather it be Palms , Larch, Ash, Oak etc they all react different, and not one scientific report like that will ever be 100% riight, 

You mean no point in that report for you?

 

I don't agree with the generalities. Whereas we will never know everything about every tree (and 100% is a very high target to set), it is not an excuse for not trying or not reducing the uncertainties as much as possible. In fact, the law requires risk assessors to do just that. The article contains interesting general information about tree assessment and failure criteria which apply to most situations, and whereas I will not use them for palms I can see that they provide a better insight into biomechanics. I'd rather have the info and where to find it but not use it than to guess or not care or to be at the mercy of snake-oil merchants whose prescriptions turn out to have no objective basis.

[Peter Sterken]

4 hours ago, spuddog0507 said:

Personally i dont see the point in that report, coconut palms and date palms i am very very unlikely to come across working in commercial forestry in the north of the  UK, Been in the job 40 yrs and on the verge of retiring, But one thing i can tell you is it dont matter how many reports like that are written, We as the human race will never know every thing about how a tree reacts when under stress from either wind or in the felling process as every tree weather it be Palms , Larch, Ash, Oak etc they all react different, and not one scientific report like that will ever be 100% riight, 

@spuddog0507 you are totally right about that!! But at least someone needs to publish the flaws of commercial methods and criteria that have been sold, and bought, without questioning 😉

[Peter Sterken]

4 hours ago, spuddog0507 said:

Personally i dont see the point in that report, coconut palms and date palms i am very very unlikely to come across working in commercial forestry in the north of the  UK, Been in the job 40 yrs and on the verge of retiring, But one thing i can tell you is it dont matter how many reports like that are written, We as the human race will never know every thing about how a tree reacts when under stress from either wind or in the felling process as every tree weather it be Palms , Larch, Ash, Oak etc they all react different, and not one scientific report like that will ever be 100% riight, 

if you're in the commercial forestry or simply trees, you may be interested in this article article tree risk assessment

[Peter Sterken]

4 hours ago, daltontrees said:

You mean no point in that report for you?

 

I don't agree with the generalities. Whereas we will never know everything about every tree (and 100% is a very high target to set), it is not an excuse for not trying or not reducing the uncertainties as much as possible. In fact, the law requires risk assessors to do just that. The article contains interesting general information about tree assessment and failure criteria which apply to most situations, and whereas I will not use them for palms I can see that they provide a better insight into biomechanics. I'd rather have the info and where to find it but not use it than to guess or not care or to be at the mercy of snake-oil merchants whose prescriptions turn out to have no objective basis.

Wonderfully said!! The following article is not as complex as the Nature one, and it also analyses some tree risk assessment methods: article tree risk assessment

[spuddog0507]

1 hour ago, Peter Sterken said:

if you're in the commercial forestry or simply trees, you may be interested in this article article tree risk assessment

I subcontract to one of the UK,s major forestry co,s and i have no option but to do a daily risk assessment or if its a job we are on for a few wk we just do one for that wk and amend as needed, i,e weather conditions, ground conditions, site changes etc, when a big proportion of our work is dealing with multiple wind blown sites which is not for the faint hearted at all, a windblown site is not for a novice cutter at all, now after the storm we have had this week end how many lads have gone out there sorting storm damage out and had a near miss or even worse ? there will be some, there is a lot of things wrong in the tree industry that need addressing and may be if they got addressed and sorted out things would be safer all round, i work now n then with some arb teams and some things i see are unblievable, one of late was a guy with saw boots n saw pants on but pants rolled up to his knees and using a saw brashing a tree out,