Two questions: stuck in changing blades and left roller of Abtrak190 not moving after small repair

[Soeren]

Hi,

I've got a used ArbTrak190 with some 800 hours right now (bought it with 720, so some aspects are still new to me). I had a problem with the anchor plate, the weldseam was breaking loose. So yesterday I received my spare part and exchanged it today, that was the simple part, however...

 

1) As blades were running now about 70 hours I wanted to give them a 120 degree turn. I am quite impressed how little they seem to be used after feeding them so much, cool stuff ?. Removing the screws was easy, but the blades did not move a single bit afterwards. I tried some WD40 and also very slight knocks with a hammer and screwdriver from the downside to loosen them somehow, but that did not work either. I also noticed that the former owner (a renting company, throught they would do a more proper service) has  used regular washers instead of the nordlock washers. Exchanged them to Nordlock ones and tightend again with 200 Nm after spraying a lot of WD40 on all of them.
However, problem not solved, so what would be the best strategy to remove the blades, once they got kind of stuck? Screws and nut look pretty normal and not overdirty, so I suppose that's a problem that has arisen multiple times for other people as well?

 

2) The second issue is a real issue: After putting everything together I started the machine without any problems and found the left roller not moving anymore. Tried forward and backward, but nothing. I noticed that after turning the machine off, I can freely move the left roller, but not the right roler. Not sure if this anyhow normal, but I would suppose both should behave identical. Speed control is also working, but just on the right roller. Also I don't get any error code on the RDS.

 

Haven't thought my maintenance day would end like this ? any help appreciated.

 

 

Regards,

Soeren

 

[Jase hutch]

Hi Soeren, 

Firstly the blade issue  , this sounds like the blades have been fitted without brushing grease on the base of the blade.

They will come out , well I've not yet had one that won't but it may need a smack with a hammer and punch through the flywheel on the angled edge of the blade.

When refitting the blades make sure the pockets are thoroughly cleaned up using wire wool or emery tape and brush grease onto the base of the blade before fitting. 

Regarding the feedrollers,  do you mean the left roller looking in the infeed chute ?

If so then I would suggest removing the springs and then using a 10mm Allen key socket , undo and remove the two cap head bolts holding the hydraulic roller motor in place , lift out the motor and inspect the shaft splines for damage and the female splines in the roller.

It's possible the roller motor shaft has sheared but rare.

I hope this helps. 

Jase.

[Soeren]

Hi Jase,

thanks for the fast answers!

5 hours ago, Jase hutch said:

Regarding the feedrollers,  do you mean the left roller looking in the infeed chute ?

Yes, exactly this one. Will examine as suggested and come back with pictures tomorrow. Maybe I already can spot the problem.

And for the blades, will simply use more force and try again ,-) As due to the problems with the replacement part, possible problem with the left feedroller and wrongly used spacers it looks like the previous owner did not had that super-duper care he claimed. With the video about changing blades is clearly easy to see the step with applying grease, but yeah, will try it.

 

Soeren

[Soeren]

Hi Jase,

 

blades are exchanged, "smack with a hammer" was the key to get them out of the flywheel - thanks for that!

 

I'll attache furthermore two pictures regarding the left feed roller.

 

Regarding the motor

• The shaft spline looks okay for me, does not look sheared.
• The outer diameter is 1 inch/25.4mm, the inner diameter is 21.8mm

Regarding the female spline attached to the roller

• Was not able to take exact measurements as the caliper is not long enough, but measurements seem to fit
• I did not spot any metallic dust or crumb
• BUT: Can you confirm if the feed roller is able to move when attached normally - or not? I tried to move the motor shaft only and this did not work. Inserting it in the feed roller I could move the roller - so the gear seems not to work in my eyes.
• ANOTHER BUT: I marked on the right side a sprocket where I noticed some kind of possible wear-off. But not sure if this is normal or not.

My impression is, I have a wear off. Asked my friend who helped with chipping the last time before I did the anchor plate exchange and he mentioned that he had seen the left roller short time kind of slightly angled in the chute, so not perfectly alligned vertically. If this is now the point, what could be the  possible reason and what would need to be exchanged as spare part?

 

Thanks,

Soeren

[Jase hutch]

Hi Soeren, 

Easy check is to reassemble and try to turn the feedroller by hand , it shouldn't turn.

If it turns then there's a chance the feedroller shaft has sheared in the support bearings ?

To dismantle this you need to remove the carriage,  remove the circlip from the top of the roller shaft and carefully using a suitable drift  , drive the roller down through the bearings . It will become apparent if there is an issue with the shaft.

Is there evidence of oil on that motor shaft  ?

If so  , the shaft seals have failed.

Jase.

[Soeren]

3 hours ago, Jase hutch said:

Hi Soeren, 

Easy check is to reassemble and try to turn the feedroller by hand , it shouldn't turn.

 

Hi Jase,

 

That is exactly the case, it turns.

 

Can you please elaborate more on "Is there evidence of oil on that motor shaft"? The shaft was greasy when I removed the motor, but I think that's okay? Hydraulic oil level in general is perfect, I neither have constant losses from the level meter nor did I spot any oil leakages. So I suppose the shaft seals would be okay.

 

Anyhow I'll dismantle the roller shaft tomorrow and will send new photos.

 

Thanks a lot!

Soeren

 

[Jase hutch]

Morning Soeren,  

If it's only grease then that's good..

I can see the dirt seal has popped out slightly,  see if you can push that back into the motor body ?

Jase....

[Soeren]

Hi Jase,

okay, today I got some time and dismantled the roller slide almost completely, all done. I finally found the problem - and also likely the reason (more to this later).

Actual some shearing appeared, the root cause was the spring anchor wich allowed the roler box to kind of leave the machine by about 2 cm. I found the guide mounting plate warped below the roller slide plate and even two screws gone. I tooke a foto of it - it's normally straight, right? ? The second foto shows the plate mounted as I found it. Also after pulling out the slide roller I noticed a lot of metal dust which I did not see before; this is likely from the metal gone from the roller bearing? What is the gear part named actually which is the counterpart to the motor shaft gear? The gear is in the 3rd foto, a little disfocussed but wear can be seen.

I am also providing fotos of the roller shaft and the lower part of the plate. So just to ask, both parts look okay to me. What is your opinion?

 

You might give a suggestion which parts are required as replacement, I suppose at least the following:

• 301030031: Guide mounting plate
• ??? : The counterpart gear to the motor shaft's gear

Any other parts recommended?

 

Also could you please confirm that the motor's gear shaft is okay, with an outer diameter of the dent's of 1 inch/25.4mm and the inner diameter is 21.8mm?

 

Thanks in advance,
Soeren

 

[Soeren]

So here is what actually likely happened (sorry, I know my kids do better drawings then I, this is the best I can  ,-)), members of the tragedy are:

• Pictured are the roller slide plate (black) with guide mounting plate below (also black)
• We find the four "wheels" or bearings rolling on the metal of the housing (blue)
• The left roller (filled light reddish)
• And finally the root couse, a damaged spring anchor (red)

What happened likely was:

• The spring anchor should normally (red dotted line) limit the slide roller in leaving the machine on the right side (right as seen from the infeed chute)
• However, it was warped actually (solid red line) which allowed one wheel near the outside to kind of escape halfway
• The normally parallel slide roller now got angeled against the housing (blue)
• Because the roller itself is limited below by another piece of the housing (green), it stays vertical but now get's angeled with the slide roller
• As slide roller and roller ar connected via the gear's teeth, we see the wear of the roller's teeth .Why not the motor's gear teeth? I don't know, but I suppose the metal has higher hardness?
• Also the roller lifted or bent the right side of the guide mounting plate down, which is actually exactly what I noticed. In fact this was so strong, the two screws were gone and parts of the plate itself have bind virtually grinded away from the roller.

So lessons learned: The spring anchor is damn important for the whole machine ,-) The machine was used when I bought it and following some old fotos it had the problem with the anchor plate already, but not bent that strong. I did not notice, unfortunately. Not sure about the damage of the roller plate, if this has just happened recently. One really has to dismantle the roller mechanics, which would be kind of creepy when buying a machine, however...

 

So I need now to order some replacement parts, hopefully all is done then.

 

Regards,

Soeren

[Jase hutch]

Hi Soeren,

This failure has occurred due to the guide mounting plate deforming. 

It's this plate that is the limit stop for the moving roller and not the spring anchor mounting. 

Please can you post a better picture of the guide plate so I can determine whether the replacement will need modifying to fit your chipper  ?

The feedroller obviously needs replacing as it's shaft has indeed sheared. 

The question regarding the motor shaft , yes it's made from much harder steel than the roller spline hence it has survived and still looks good..

So you will need to order a new moving roller and guide plate.

Jase.