Cavanagh V Witley Parish Council - A case of rough justice?

[Acer ventura]

Those of you familiar with the landmark Cavanagh v Witley Parish Council Judgment (the two-yearly inspection Lime tree onto bus one).  This analysis of what appears to be rotten at the roots of the evidence might be of interest.  A heads up that this is quite a long read. Those of you familiar with VALID’s publications will be used to seeing things on one side of paper. This time, there’s too much ground to cover and some of the devil is in some of the detail. You might want to save it for a break and a drink of something.

 

A case of rough justice?

WWW.LINKEDIN.COM

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Cavanagh v Witley Parish Council - Establishing the context Sometimes, the gulf between reasonable, proportionate, and...

 

 

 

Edited May 14, 2020 by Acer ventura

[Khriss]

Very good, a respectable challenge to the Prosecution -there. I would only add that it was 'storm force ' winds that initiated the catastrophe,  which in most inspections you could never predict, even if you were Michael Fish.  Root plate decay issues can require invasive inspection, who is going to pay for that !  K

[Khriss]

( BUT   it's case law now,   ?   )

[Acer ventura]

2 hours ago, Khriss said:

( BUT   it's case law now,   ?   )

Hi Khriss

 

I'd qualify this with the fact that I'm an Arborist, but my understanding is that Statute and Common Law are the primary tests, and you’re best to set out your stall relative to those.  Case Law turns on the evidence presented during that particular trial.  Though Cavanagh was appealed by Witley and failed, as I understand it the ‘facts’ of the case weren’t what was being appealed.  These ‘facts’ are where a considerable problem lies because it looks like two of the key facts aren’t facts at all.

 

The best way to set out your stall, and reduce the likelihood of a claim, is to adopt a Tree Risk-Benefit Management Strategy.  I've got an article in this month's Arb Magazine about this and the work I've done with the Tasmanian Government on their Strategy, which I think is due out soon.
 

Edited May 14, 2020 by Acer ventura

[Acer ventura]

1 hour ago, Khriss said:

I would only add that it was 'storm force ' winds that initiated the catastrophe,

I agree, the wind speeds were gusting up to Beaufort 12 close to the site in the storm, and I think the wind load was much more than a 'trigger'.  The Met Office have it listed as a 2012 'Past Weather Event' (attached).  IIRC, their last wind-related Past Weather Event before 2012, in that part of the UK, was in 2008.

 

It's something I was going to explore in a follow up article, if I can get hold of the expert witness reports and joint statement.  My first efforts were refused, and I'm looking at a different approach that's been suggested to me by a Barrister.

 

 

winter-storms-early-january-2012---met-office.pdf

[Khriss]

@Acer ventura  exactly that. I tree survey in Rail, and ( dunno if you were there ) Clause Mattheck turned to us at the end of his last lecture at Loughborough and basically the gist was , to fell All Trees within strike distance of the rail, as it will be impossible to stand in court and defend a tree failure in our circumstance with the surveying resource available- against the catastrophic damage and consequential liabilities.   Wish I had that bit recorded but he does go on a bit and missed my chance.  K

[Puffingbilly413]

7 hours ago, Acer ventura said:

Those of you familiar with the landmark Cavanagh v Witley Parish Council Judgment (the two-yearly inspection Lime tree onto bus one).  This analysis of what appears to be rotten at the roots of the evidence might be of interest.  A heads up that this is quite a long read. Those of you familiar with VALID’s publications will be used to seeing things on one side of paper. This time, there’s too much ground to cover and some of the devil is in some of the detail. You might want to save it for a break and a drink of something.

 

A case of rough justice?

WWW.LINKEDIN.COM

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Cavanagh v Witley Parish Council - Establishing the context Sometimes, the gulf between reasonable, proportionate, and...

 

A really interesting read - thanks for posting.

 

[Acer ventura]

8 hours ago, Puffingbilly413 said:

 

Thanks, PB413.

[Jon Heuch]

On 14/05/2020 at 14:34, Khriss said:

( BUT   it's case law now,   ?   )

Well, it's a case & clearly judgments were made in the law courts......but it is of no great relevance other than, if a judge was presented with the same facts & evidence they may and only may come to a similar decision.....but they could come to a different decision.....The fact that the Court of Appeal made a judgment does NOT mean that the courts have in some way determined that all parish councils (or any other tree owner) has to inspect their trees every two years or that every "high risk" tree needs similar treatment....& that's me writing as a non-lawyer with just a smattering of knowledge of what these things mean. Consult a lawyer or do a bit of googling to understand the difference between obiter & ratio decidendi....& then consult a lawyer!

[Khriss]

Basically @Jon Heuch  make sure there is a caveat in yr survey conditions stating storm force winds cannot be adequately quantified in yr Tree Risk assessment  ( which is why seat belts in cars are not tested in 100mph  crashes )  

 

K