Our industry

[Andy Clark]

here an excerpt from the first para...Thanks for the link btw...I will read it.

 

"The existing data do not adequately explain the problem. A review

of the situation as related to trees, biology, soil, water relations,

and the effects of climate is presented. The published data are

shown to be inadequate."

 

"£16 billion"...i think you mean £1.6 billion dont you?

 

Sorry chap, but considering that i used to work for the company in question, i have to be very wary of copyright and stuff...... thanks to the good old " 2 YEAR non competition clause" in my contract of employment. Great, ain'it?

 

 

As for the first para...... yeah, totally agree. But keep in in context,and remember that this doc was written from the perspective of the insurers and structural engineers, towards highlighting the lack of Arb industry study to the same ends.

 

1.6?? My pdf copy of the doc doesn't show a decimal place. I'll gladly stand corrected if I've miss-quoted.

[Bundle 2]

Well theres a big difference my friend and I cant stand being made to feel dumb especially whan I get talked down to by the consultant type...

One thing I did manage to learn from marcus and a maths a'level is how and why statistics are or are not robust enough to withstand scrutiny....

Nuff said. Please check your copy of the document....

Sod it...heres the excerpt...

"Within the London metropolitan area, claims

against the Borough Councils alone have exceeded

£23 million during the period 1988-1992

[20]. Nationally during the same period claims

exceeded £1.6 billion [12]."

Youre welcome!!

 

Edit2- Heres an excerpt which describes precisely what I thought was the case as I sensed the numbers werent quite right...apologies for the misunderstanding mate!

 

"However, these data have, and continue

to be, erroneously cited by building and

arboricultural consultants as representative of the

whole country, regardless of varying climate and

clay type."

You get me.....

Edited January 1, 2010 by Bundle 2

[Andy Clark]

Well theres a big difference my friend and I cant stand being made to feel dumb especially whan I get talked down to by the consultant type...

One thing I did manage to learn from marcus and a maths a'level is how and why statistics are or are not robust enough to withstand scrutiny....

Nuff said. Please check your copy of the document....

Sod it...heres the excerpt...

"Within the London metropolitan area, claims

against the Borough Councils alone have exceeded

£23 million during the period 1988-1992

[20]. Nationally during the same period claims

exceeded £1.6 billion [12]."

Youre welcome!!

 

Edit2- Heres an excerpt which describes precisely what I thought was the case as I sensed the numbers werent quite right...apologies for the misunderstanding mate!

 

"However, these data have, and continue

to be, erroneously cited by building and

arboricultural consultants as representative of the

whole country, regardless of varying climate and

clay type."

You get me.....

 

Not really chap...... for starters you seem to be under the impression that i'm a "consultant type"???

 

lmao.... I WISH!

 

I'm just someone who's spent quite a long time in this industry, and happens to have had a vast and extremely varying remit of experience.......

 

As it goes, i've actually been out of full time employment for near on 12 months now. Lived of me savings for 9 months, then joined the ranks of the "officially" unemployed about 4 months ago.

 

Most rational people would have said "sod this for a lark" and left this merry go round of an industry loooooooong behind. Oh no, not me though....... i still get up every day of the week and check Arbjobs....... i still deal with the almost hundreds of "Thanks, but no thanks" job application rejections.... i still do plenty of volounteer stuff and strive to do my bit to push Arb awareness forward.......

 

In hindsight, i've royally screwed myself. As i lived offand used up my savings in a vain attempt not to be a burden to society, i've now got no cash left in order to do anything positive with my life, like going self employed or owt.

 

Why?? Cos you just gotta love the Arb Industry.

[Bundle 2]

Im sorry to hear that Andy....Im gonna get all " something will turn up ..." on ya which will just piss you off.

Funny thing is, I find myself in an almost identical situation as yourself. Im not convinced that the industry is all that great tho'.

Ive had to work long and hard to get anywhere , paying my own way throughout almost without exception.

Anyhoo, I dont want to get all resentful and bitter on ya'...Only perhaps that what I have in the past regarded as best practice, is not as commonly adopted protocol as it might at first appear. I piss of the guys whom I want most to get along with and walk headlong into situations about which I look back and think..."How did I not see that coming??"

Ho hUm...2010....I wish you well and as b4, it cant get any worse than last years bad fortunes?!!

Edited January 1, 2010 by Bundle 2

[Andy Clark]

And following on from that brief synopsis, perhaps now's a good time to add my personal views to this thread........

 

I've been in this industry near on 20 years. I did a two year aprenticeship as a groundsman, before going to what WAS seen as the leading Uk Arb college (Merrist wood) and taking what WAS one of the most recognised quals for practical Arb (NCH Arb).

 

15-16 ish years on the tools, working up the ranks of Climber, Lead Climber, Foreman...... probably worked for some 8 or 9 companies in this time. Some small, some large and well known. Some even AAACs!

 

4 ish years ago now i took the next step up the lader and got into contract management....... started off as Suppervisor, then onto Manager of our local County Highways Contract.......

 

Stepped out of it for a year, and had a dabble with lecturing........ absolutely LOVED teaching, but totally hated the politics that went with it. Faaaaaaaaaaar too much about bums on seats for my liking, and nowhere near enough about teaching the modules as they were intended.

 

Morals got the better of me after one term, so quit and got back into contract management. ended up as National Contract Manager of what WAS one of Europes largest Arb consultancy practices. My job was basically to manage the outsourced contracts provision, and make sure that the work was done to the spec that the consultants had specified. As a result, i managed one of the largest contarctor panels in the UK, and probably POLITICALLY the second largest on par with the AAAC.

 

 

I quit back in Dec of last year (08) for reasons that i won't go into on a public forum........ needless to say my morals again got the better of me.

 

 

 

 

My point in all this long winded story???? I can't hold "Profesional Level" membership of our industries aleged leading organiation, as i don't have a Level 6 qual!

 

 

Does 20 years in the industry and aaaaaaaaaaaaall that experience mean i'm not a "Professional Arboriculturalist?"

 

 

No, it means i'm just someone who has no interest in the scientific aspect of tree care........ my ident is pants, and I can't tell one end of a dryads saddle from another......... but you gimme a business plan, or a H&S policy, or a tender application or a works scedule, and i'll rip it to pieces, re-write it and present you with one of the most comprehensive doc's you'll ever come across.

 

 

So what do i think of "our industry"? Well, despite now being unemployed for 12 months (as per my previous post), I still press on. Too many years off the tools to be taken seriously as a commercial climber again, but not enough experience in "consultancy" to be taken seriously as a "consultant" (despite the fact I have no interest in scientific consultancy).

 

But i love this industry! I love the people in it (some, not all)! And i will continually strive to do my bit and have my say in the vain attempt that some day, my ten peneth might just make a difference.

 

 

 

Does that make me an A) or a B) Tony?

[Andy Clark]

Im sorry to hear that Andy....Im gonna get all " something will turn up ..." on ya which will just piss you off.

Funny thing is, I find myself in an almost identical situation as yourself. Im not convinced that the industry is all that great tho'.

Ive had to work long and hard to get anywhere , paying my own way throughout almost without exception.

Anyhoo, I dont want to get all resentful and bitter on ya'...Only perhaps that what I have in the past regarded as best practice, is not as commonly adopted protocol as it might at first appear. I piss of the guys whom I want most to get along with and walk headlong into situations about which I look back and think..."How did I not see that coming??"

Ho hUm...2010....I wish you well and as b4, it cant get any worse than last years bad fortunes?!!

 

 

Alls good mate.... no offence taken.

 

I like your bit about the perception of best practice....... the stories I could tell you about the upper workings of the industry, would make your toes curl!

 

All is most definitely, not as it seems.

[Arborist Sites]

Alls good mate.... no offence taken.

 

I like your bit about the perception of best practice....... the stories I could tell you about the upper workings of the industry, would make your toes curl!

 

All is most definitely, not as it seems.

 

I dont think you need to say anything to most of us who have had dealings, its pitiful really.....

 

Some of the best practicing companies are the smallest, many of which even put the LA's to shame.

 

In contracts i will always get them to quote as you are guaranteed great work, if there are any probs one phone call will sort it rather than being passed around

[Bundle 2]

Originally posted by Bundle 2

"Not without being able to promote the case for tree management in the same way.

Its been vocalised before on here,,are there any figures to show that we are doing a neccessary job, reducing accidents and mitigating risk whilst promoting tree health and sustainability r=etc etc...? "

 

I understand the government in the USA spend an estimated $30 million dollars p.a.( since 1990 ) trying to find the answers to this and other related "green infrastructure " questions.....

Im not sure where these numbers are derived. Its an impressive commitment if its right!!?

Edited January 2, 2010 by Bundle 2

[Amelanchier]

Yep I was aware of John's case for a tree commission. Whilst its laudible - I don't see it ever happening...

 

The reason why I mentioned the FC was that they, along with DEFRA, are producing the high level strategy docs

 

Forestry Commission - A Delivery Plan for the ETWF Strategy

 

www.defra.gov.uk/rural/documents/forestry/20070620-forestry.pd

 

These aren't trad forestry strategies - they don't focus on production, they focus on sustainable adaptation, landscape and amenity. Our stuff right?

 

Target after target in these documents overlap our work.

 

Diagram 3 of the FC ETWF shows all the organisations and bodies involved in delivering the strategy...The AA are listed - anyone have any idea how we're (those of us on the dark side!) going to contribute? Anyone ever hear a single word from the AA about it!?!

 

Just seems to me that we're going to be left behind if we're not careful which will make us even less relevent. I don't think we should bin our trade/professional organisations - we just need to get ourselves involved.

Edited January 2, 2010 by Amelanchier
plurals!

[Amelanchier]

...Does that make me an A) or a B) Tony?

 

Nah Andy, that makes you C) Other.