Day Rate for static milling?

[Boy English]

Evening all,

 

I've finally got my stenner up and running and have all ready encountered an issue I'm after some advice on?

 

Original plan was to buy my timber standing, extact, fell and forward in house then mill to order.

 

I contract the fencing for a local estate and have several gates to put up (I supply materials in price) and had suggested chestnut posts which I would mill myself and have timber ready. All was good until I received a call from there forestry manager informing me that he has sold them x amount of chestnut for me to mill into posts at £60 a cube and wants me to use this for their fencing.

 

I'm not overly happy about milling other people's timber and am reluctant to start as I have worked hard to get to the point that I can supply myself and make the most I can out of my yard and gear.

 

I'm happy to buy standing from the chap and we have discussed this in the past but feel he's going to be trying to sell timber to other markets suggesting that I will forward and mill it for the client as they don't have the ability.

 

Question is it reasonable to say no I only mill my own timber and if not what sort of rate am I looking at? I'm not interested in the odd hour so thought about a full day option to reduce the risk of "can you just" type situations.

 

Any words of wisdom welcome..

 

 

[Ilnumero]

I mill other people's timber just as much as my own and I think it's easy money, to be honest.

A customer brings me a stem, I mill it, they pay up.

I don't have to get involved in transporting the stem, I'm not worried about it's quality, I don't have to try and find a market for the planks etc.

It takes all the hassle out of the job. I explain everything before work starts and make sure they understand that they pay for damaged bands if I hit anything in the log, which they take the risk for. I also ask for a cutting list to be compiled beforehand as. often, the log is already on the mill and I say - what do you want? and they haven't a clue, they just say, what do you (I) think?  It's far better that they have had time to think what they want out of the log.

I actually prefer milling other people's logs as I am paid whatever comes out the log. If it is rotten, they still have to pay for the job.

I charge £350 for a full day. 

Often, my customers bring one or two small logs they have brought home when walking the dog and want it milled into 1" boards for their woodwork hobby. I charge £40 per hour for this.

[oldwoodcutter]

Good luck with that Adam [emoji846]

[gdh]

We were paying £280+vat for someone to mill for us 2 years ago. He came with the mill on the back of a lorry with a hiab, that was a 7 hour day roughly. 

[Boy English]

Thanks for the info so far, it all seems pretty cheap if I'm honest.

Last I heard in my area was a mobile mill at 450 a day and you had to supply a loader with operator who also helped as a spare pair of hands to speed production up.

May I ask what your setup is ilnumero?

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[wills-mill]

Might be worth seeing if you can get a sample of their roundwood and establish a piecework cost per post. Then if you get really up to speed and put more kit or people in you'd see a better return.

 

It can be a bit fairer on bread and butter stuff like fencing, when things can turn sour if a day rate is charged and the produce being sawn out ends up costing more than buying posts in.

 

I usually run on £45 per hour on site with a diesel lt40 with setworks, and a mileage charge if distant and a £15 band charge if we hit nasties.

[Boy English]

Might be worth seeing if you can get a sample of their roundwood and establish a piecework cost per post. Then if you get really up to speed and put more kit or people in you'd see a better return.
 
It can be a bit fairer on bread and butter stuff like fencing, when things can turn sour if a day rate is charged and the produce being sawn out ends up costing more than buying posts in.
 
I usually run on £45 per hour on site with a diesel lt40 with setworks, and a mileage charge if distant and a £15 band charge if we hit nasties.

We had a trial run a couple of weeks ago on some oak that we had put to one side while felling firewood, had around 3.5t in 3m lengths suitable size for 6-8" posts.

Two of us operating the mill and another on the loader moving roundwood and taking waste to the processor.

We did time it within reason and with a dullish band were kicking a post out quite happily in 10mins (not including pointing the top)

I'm running a stenner 42 coupled to a 120hp perkins 6 (not overly juicy as running at 1200rpm)

A rough calculation gave me a day running cost of around £80 (diesel, band, service and a drink for band changes)

Let's assume that I have a requirement for 12 posts and purchase oak at 60 a ton (prefer to purchase standing but for example driftside)I would hope to find 12posts in 5t so I'm £300 out on timber plus £50 to cover taking the forwarder 1/2 mile to collect it.

Let's say were lazy that day and only mill 4 in an hour because there's only two of us, 3 hours later we have 12 posts.

We're currently paying £50 for 8x8 in softwood and oak are costing £130 (all + vat) from my local mill.

Even supplying the oak posts at £75 a post gives £900 - costs and half a day running still leaves £510 for a mornings work with two of us.

After buying standing the decent bits of oak and chestnut we separated from the firewood pile came in the yard at under £40 a ton hence my preference to continue in that direction..

Am I missing a vital part here??

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[wills-mill]

Sounds good, nothing vital left out there. Maybe the occasional bit of rage when you find a bit of old fence wire with a fresh band, but your sums are good.

 

£130 for Oak 8x8's (£36.50 per cubic ft) just seems bonkers. I know the exchange rate has nailed a lot of firms who bring in Euro Oak, but that seems crazy. The one thing we've increasingly found is that Oak just becomes more and more of a luxury lifestyle product, and people want 'fencing' that is flawless and basically joinery quality for electric gates and the like- usually just call it WAG grade.

 

 I just try to let people know that they'll be getting a straightforward bit of farm grade fencing that is tidily sawn and crosscut and is going to be affordable and usable but not of great beauty.

 

Hopefully an image is attached of a bit of tidy Chestnut that we use as a show display.

 

 

Edited August 31, 2017 by wills-mill

[wills-mill]

and a bit of farm grade

[Boy English]

and a bit of farm grade

Looks good

Using the above pricing stratagy on chestnut posts (selling at £50) still gives £360 for a morning providing I can either buy it standing or at chip money.

Conclusion so far is unless I'm offered £600 a day for two blokes, loader, mill with timber dropped at the yard, I'm better off using my own timber, unless I find some rebar in a log that is [emoji37]

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