bmp01

6 hours ago, adw said:

You should in no circumstances be tampering with the carb this will invalidate the warranty, anybody telling you to do this on a new saw is an idiot, you have no idea what you are doing and have probably done more harm than good, i give up.

Well yeah,  but OP explained that was done before asking for advice on here...first post...

Putting carb screws back to factory settings is (sort of) undoing tamperring. I'd imagine that was the first thing the chap did after it wouldn't start though.

I'm in the 'do the basics' camp before sending back, you'd do that stuff as basic maintenance anyway.

Basics:

-Reset the carb screws to manufacturers settings.

-Has it got compression,  pick  up by pull cord,  does it drop slowly ?

-Is there a spark ? (probably ok from the description).

-Take the plug out, is it dry or wet/oily? 

---If the plugs wet/oily pull the saw over with the plug out to clear it out. Clean the plug (or get a new one), heat plug up, install, try to start. Don't be using the choke too much, choke off at the first hint of it coughing and probably after the first or second pull anyway if it's got a purge bulb. 

---If plug is dry there's no fuel getting through. Clean the plug (or get a new one), a few drops of fuel through spark plug hole, install plug, try to start. It might run for an instant before running out of fuel again. 

-If it doesn't run or runs briefly check spark plug again. 

Feedback ?

That video is in slow motion,  would have been fun if they had done done some cutting.

Been caught out several times with a MS211 that's in the family. Pull the cord, nothing seems to happen,  about ready to do another drop pull start and all of a sudden the blinking engines running just as you're lifting the saw. Quite disconcerting, I like old school....

I've not tried starting it slowly, just not part of the game plan when it comes to starting an engine. 

32 minutes ago, cygnusnsf said:

OK so gonna grab me some Harpic Blue and soak the cylinder then use some wet and dry with it to gently remove any transfer. I take it that rotational movement to remove any transfer much better than the up and down movement mimicking the piston movement?

I also have found one of the bolts holding the carb has a stripped thread so that might be a reason was running lean potentially.

Not sure how I could then rethread will have a look round to see if there is any ideas to fix that.

Thanks all for comments above.

Use chemicals just on the aluminium deposit,  dont soak the whole dammed thing ! 

Chemicals will eat any aluminium they come into contact with.

And in case it needs saying, keep it off your hands and protect your eyes etc, nasty stuff...

Question for Mr Edmonds - did you sell the lot, still collecting dust ? Just curious,  sure there are a few others wondering too and it'd be nice to know given the interest shown. ....

Ta,

55 minutes ago, Ratman said:

oooohh bmp01 you animal you! ??

Naah, it's quite gentle,  honest. 

If you think of it like a sanding pad on a flat surface you can see the pressure is quite low compared with a digit (finger) pressing a small area of abrasive. Each sanding drum is bespoke to cylinder size so the curvature is matched as best as possible.

Of course there's a bit of operator involvement,  no point focusing on a pristine bit of the bore. Tend to use it like a honing tool and get cross hatch pattern, much like a new one.

6 minutes ago, cygnusnsf said:

Any tips for cleaning - seen things like oven cleaner which would be fairly cheap.

2 routes:

Chemical- disolve aluminium deposits,

Abrasion - brake hone / emery cloth on a mandrel or a flappy wheel

I don't know that there is any evidence says one is better than the other. For a light seize where there is only a small amount of aluminium to remove I guess dissolving it won't take too long.  But check for deep scores in the cylinder, you don't want chemicals to attack the aluminium cylinder under the plating.

Personally I quite like the emery on a mandrel but then making up the mandrel is small beer as I have a lathe. See pic. 

I've used the old blue Harpic (bog cleaner), bubbles nicely on ally, I've used that in the past and seems ok - don't know if that's frowned upon ?

Good pictures by the way ?

Yeah,  that's not too good. But also not a complete disaster, as these things go it's a light seize. Really depends how you value your time whether you fix it or bin it.

In my opinion there's a very good chance the cylinder will clean up, new piston and ring assembly required if you want to do it right.

The engine is not a clamshell  design so pretty easy to get the cylinder off.

As stated by Spud, you need to think about why its done that in the first place, otherwise it will repeat itself. Could be bad fuel,  could be fuel lines or carb.  Could also be crankcase seals.  You might want to do a bit of research to see what you're up against.

HTH.

Well bugger me, just had a play and its actually not all bad.

Walbro carb with purge bulb, 160 psi compression cold and some nutter has fitted a new plug and done a muffler mod on it (must remember to value my time better).

I dumped the fuel, added some fresh, purged it though and it popped on the first pull. Choke in and it started next pull. Compression was still 150 psi hot, (must have had a new ring surely?)

Ok so the AV system let's the vibration through and its probably not got the power of a decent saw but not all bad. 

Spud - here you go chap, this is what a Mitox 4116 looks like ?

Dammed thing made my hand dirty when I dragged it out from where it was,  been there that long. 

And yes, it was broken and free and I got suckered into fixing it. Part seized, it didn't get any new bits, just the rough edges smoothing off - and that means I can't flog it as a runner really,  not worth the aggro. 

A bit more time to explain - the 'easy start' thing is just a torsion spring that goes between the pull cord pulley and the engine flywheel, its like the spring used to retract the pull cord only bigger in all dimensions. It's purpose is to smooth out the resistance you feel when you pull the starter cord. Which means you won't feel the engine reaching compression, it will just feel soggy. Personally,  I hate it. And it's another thing to break. On the plus side,  the theory is that once the engine has gone past compression once the spring releases is energy quickly so the engine is rotating faster during the next firing cycle. .... maybe. ....

None of this says your saw isn't broken. But if it pops with some fuel mix down the plug hole I'd say there is some hope. You might be into carb cleaning or fuel line issues. Let us know what the piston is like, a picture will allow a proper judgement.

HTH,

bmp01

The 4116 i looked at had 'easy start' spring mechanism. It just might be ok even if it feels like it doesn't have compression.  Pull the muffler off and check piston as said earlier. ...

55 minutes ago, SimpleSimon said:

In theory Lithium batteries should hold charge more or less forever. I've never come across one that was put away charged and had any noticeable loss next time I came to use it. 

I'm not a battery person but my battery drills used to be NiCad and NiMH and we're invariably 'flat' when left for any length of time (Makita, Bosch bought new and not cheap crap). Converted to Li-Ion and wot-d-ye-no always ready to use and much lighter to boot. Much impressed by this battery type.  

Here's some back ground reading for you.

https://arbtalk.co.uk/forums/topic/65438-mac-cat-839/

You can also use the search feature on here.

A couple of points and a start...:

-If isn't garbage already,  it soon will be if you run it on neat petrol and not 2 stroke mix. Google why you need 2 stroke mix.

-The easy start shows the ignition system and engine compression are probably OK, not 100% guaranteed though. 

-Smoke from a running engine is just as likely from too much fuel (as it is from oil in the fuel).

-A crude compression test - pick the saw up by the pull start cord, if it unwinds the cord quick its knackered. If it unwinds the cord slowly with a series of  resistances over 15 seconds or more your in luck. Try this with the plug out, you'll see what no compression is like.

-If you want to see if bar oil is leaking into fuel tank,  empty fuel out,  leave oil in.  See if the empty fuel tank fills with oil. 

-I'd try this,  plug out - is it wet with fuel?  Continue with the plug out,  pull the engine over dozen times with choke off and throttle open - gives it a clear out. Dry the plug and if posible warm up the sparky end with blow torch/gas hob. Drop a couple of cc's of fuel mix down the plug hole, fit the hot plug in a hurry and see if it goes (without choke). You can do this over a few times if you want but if it won't run like this for a second or 2 it could be back to the hand saw time. 

Good luck.   

42 minutes ago, spudulike said:

 

The way to handle furlough is to work out how much money you are saving by not going out and spending it on alcohol!!! Works for me

Sounds good,  prolly ought to make a deduction for alcohol consumed at home. ... luckily for me its home brew cider which cost next to zero (can't be arsed to factor in capital expenditure).... hic....

Interested in seeing what makes a 150t tick - '3x150t in bits' if you think I can build 1 saw from them.

14 minutes ago, Ricko said:

Swapped carbs over, no joy.

Then I couldn't get the original one to run properly when I swapped them back again, arghhh!!

Maybe you crudded up your 'good' carb. Old fuel, dirt - filter or fuel line fault in the non runner saw introduced crap into good carb ?

Back at the start,  you said you can't get the non runner to run on a bit of fuel down the spark plug hole, if that's case I'd focus on that first.  Fresh fuel,  strong spark, decent pull - it ought to run how ever briefly. That's assuming decent compression.  For comparison, what compression did you get on your running saw with that same compression gauge?

You can go one step simpler and use easy start spray if you have some.

You can heat the spark plug out of the saw,  it might help marginal mixture.

Go with a new plug anyway, quick/cheap.

Check the spark is a decent one, can it jump a 4-5 mm gap ?

Has the flywheel spun on the crank giving wrong spark timing ?

With the running saw you need to visit the carb and fuel system for a general overhaul by the sounds of it. 

HTH.

31 minutes ago, rolsstar said:

What do you mean by 25: 1 ?

You know it's a 2 stroke engine ? 

You better do a little bit of home work about the fuel and oil mixture required for 2 stroke engines. Maybe you have the owners manual with the saw,  time to have a read.

25:1 is the ratio of petrol to oil that a lot of chinese manufacturers recommend.

44 minutes ago, spudulike said:

I tend to give up and think Darwin has a point!

I think Darwin gave up and moved on.

Not judging the poster of thread .... he might not be paying enough attention to what people say but he was working with some logic.

But yeah, in general, Darwin definitely has his hands tied with modern day safety .... shame really its not for the best, just means the human race gets progressively more stupid.

10 hours ago, Steve Bullman said:

Its so final 

And that's not a good thing as far as this threads concerned ???

On 17/04/2020 at 19:57, coppicer said:

Thanks, it's about six years old. It doesn't get heavy use, but it does a bit every year. Using it a bit more at the moment, which is why I noticed the pickup issue. Will take a look at the points you raise, starting with the screw.

And there's the clue. How fresh is the fuel ? Do you drain fuel and run saw dry before storing ? Evaporated fuel causes havoc with carburettors but as its still runnIng you might get lucky with fresh super unleaded and semi synthetic 2 stoke oil.

Police were too busy before, new role plus some of the force self isolating = crime increase.

There will be illegal immigrants who did cash in hand jobs and now cant, no benefit payout = hunger and crime.

I bet theres no problem shifting stolen goods in trucks.

Look after your kit, but don't get hurt in confrontation - hospital is the wrong place to be right now. 

Had the exact opposite of this on my Makita DCS6800i. The thing kept stalling, I'd wind the idle screw in a bit more and 2 minutes later it would stall again, I was convinced a bearing was eating itself up. This repeated over and over, would have been hilarious to watch the grumpiness unfolding.  Finally twigged the idle screw wasnt wound in as far as it should have been - given the number of quarter turns it had up to that point....

Tillotsen carb on that, idle screw and thread in carb seemed fine. Think I deformed the thread in the carb to add a bit of friction, been good since.

On 18/03/2020 at 12:01, Bob_z_l said:

There are probably better people to answer this......

but I replaced the whole engine in my 023 with a Farmertec pattern part 025 motor to get the uplift in power. I had heat siezed the 023 and ruined the little end bearing at the same time.
Not that much of an improvement but for me, it was the cheapest way to save what was going to be a scrapper.

 

And an occasional saw , not relied on to do loads of work.

 

I did this too, for a big end failure engine. Not the best quality maybe, strangely the clone engine seemed to vibrate a lot more - I'm guessing they don't have the crank balance weights quite right .... 

11 hours ago, Alycidon said:

4mm is the industry standard,  make sure you change the rope under the glass,  do NOT overtighten the fixing screws,  the glass needs to be able to expand a shade when hot.

All good info. I do wonder why Stovax went for 5mm though.  As stated 5mm is not something people stock.

I agree the glass needs to be able to move in the surround but here's something to ponder : this stove glass has a very low expansion compared to normal glass which already has a low expansion - if it's mounted in a cast iron (or steel) door which has a massive expansion rate in comparison  to normal glass what happens when the stove heats up ?

I'd wager the frame expands more than the glass .... 

Not that it makes any difference,  still got to let the glass move.  I plan to support the weight of the glass on thick glass fibre pads (2 off), new glass fibre seal and use the screw clamps just to stop the glass from wobbling about - little or no pressure. Currently the glass weight is taken by clamping the glass tight enough to stop it sliding down....