lux

First time Ive skimmed over this thread. 

From a business perspective I think as a sweeping generalisation a lot of people struggle to comprehend the pricing of tree surgery. It gets thrown into the 'gardening' category with no or little comprehension of the difference in overheads for a start. For instance , most customers are always Impressed with a fancy looking bit of kit that turns up at their house, they ask a few questions including the inevitable "how much was it" , eyes are usually out on stalks when you tell them your tracked chipper or multi one or whatever was 30 or 40 k, more than most of them will have spent on their family car by some margin. Yet they still value your work at 'gardener' rates. No disrespect to Gardners, however their overheads are not in the same book let alone page. 

Trees are more often than not a non essential for them, things like electrics and plumbing fit far further into the essentials priority list. These types of skills are more regulated than the tree game as well which quite frankly leads to a disproportionate pricing structure that clients are less able to avoid and accept as normal. They seem to relate more to the value of a plumber. 

Come to think of it mechanics hourly rates are pretty strong these days. The garage Im using next week is £95 per hour. Probably around double what a lot of tree surgeons are charging per man hour. 

I suppose in a nutshell our pricing is more limited by the general customers perception of value than most other 'trades', we should be making a better margin really. In my view its a limiting factor in the industry that has ripples such as what you pay your staff / labour and who is not only attracted to working in the industry but staying in the industry long term. 

Don’t by anything without drive to the wheels. First job on  slope / bank you’ll regret it. 
loading is so much easier too. 
 
dosko / danequip are good.  Hydraulic drive. 27hp.  I don’t care much for the Kohler engines but parts are easy to find online when needed. 
 

pred 38 good as it will tackle the big stuff easily but the track base slides in to get you through a standard gate.  Tend to be good value second hand.  

26 minutes ago, doobin said:

If your looking secondhand then it will be whatever comes up at the right price. 
 

id go and look at the worky op is interested in and give it a good demo. I can’t stand their control system compared to a Sherpa, but @luxhas a worky 22 and it’s certainly a solid built machine. Just nowhere near as ergonomic to operate for me. 

It’s whatever you are used to. At the end of the day you stand on the back of all of them and move a couple of little levers backwards and forwards.  Not much between any of them in terms of that. 

Worky has hydraulic drive and higher flow rate. 
I think the Sherpa is chain drive but they have a whole fleet of new models out now which are probably hydraulic too. Certainly the flow rate of the new ones has been significantly upped if that’s important to what they want to run on it. 
 

quite honestly stick a picture of any of them on a dart board and pick which one you hit.  They all beat carrying logs and are more reliable than a flakey groundsman with more excuses than a politician 

9 hours ago, tim361 said:

Seems to be unusually slow here in mid Sussex. This time of year things normally start to pick up with people heading outside and finding trees/fencing that needs doing. Looked at my first job for two weeks today, started off as a load of trees and some fencing that needs replacing. By the time we had had a look at a few bits it went to just a few trees to remove. By the time I left it’s one small maple to remove and I doubt I’ll get that so a complete waste of time. Out of every 5 jobs I look at I’m loosing 4 to people working for peanuts. Recently lost a job which i had priced at £3500 + vat for two of us for a week. Guy I lost it to had come in at £1200 and said two of them would have it done in two days. Spoke to the customer a couple of days ago about another job and asked how the guy got on with the trees. Said it took them 4 days with 3 men on site….. I honestly don’t know how people like this can exist running a business.

Were fortunate that we still have 8-10 weeks work in the diary, just hoping it picks up in the mean time. 

Not far from you, right on the Surrey / West Sussex border. The Bread and Butter type jobs are very slow atm. No doubt the elections will generate more 'wallet cramp' with people waiting to see what happens -  like it will affect them..🙄

Got a couple of nicer bigger jobs to do, one mid June and the other subject to TPO permissions but there's a good 2 1/2 weeks of work on those for 2 of us. Small jobs seems to be cobbling a week together at a time, Luckily I have a few other things like the charcoaling which are coming into busy season for us to be bulking out the diary with. Strange times though. 

18 hours ago, swinny said:

I looked at a job at the weekend, customer made a big fuss about the works over nothing really. 2 sections of conifer hedge to reduce nothing special. They then said I was the fourth to come to quote for the works... 

 

I thought ffs 😂 not sure if I can be bothered putting pen to paper

Totally , if I find out I'm the 3rd or 4th to quote on a simple tree job you know they are simply after the cheapest which I never wish to be and whatever you strive for in quality of work won't matter one bit to them. 

Likewise with the ones that call you for a quote but you never get the job yet they always call you next time for that good old price check....  If they haven't used me after quoting for 2 jobs you know you are wasting your time .... "Next" as they say. 

On 22/04/2024 at 19:11, sameasabove said:

Hi im currently looking into a working holiday in Australia, probably perth. Ive been in contact with some people and have been told the "busy season" is from roughly march to july. My questions were: how true is this? Would big companies still potentially employ new workers in the "slower" season? Or is it basically hopeless to try and get employed before march ish? Ideally i would love to be in oz before the miserable uk winter lol, but obviously moving and not getting a job isnt a great idea. 

Contact all the bigger looking firms in the areas you are wanting to be in. You can type up a general email with questions and a bit of basic CV on it, just paste it into email and send it to the firms. The answers better from the horses mouth, not other peoples opinions, you might even get an offer. 

On 07/04/2024 at 11:34, lfelton said:

Hi All and thanks for having me on your forum. 

 

May I pick your brains? I'm a wood turner (part time) and need ash or beech stems of 18"+ for salad bowls.

 

Is it practical to have only a few stems (say 2-10) delivered to me (I have a loader that can safely lift 750kg)? It's a smallholding with pretty good access.

 

Very roughly how much should I be looking to pay?

 

I currently buy through my local sawmills. Where else is worth contacting about this? Is it worth posting on this site (I am in Herefordshire)?

 

Thanks for any tips!

 

 

Ive got some large bits of spalted beech I was going to sell as turning blanks. Currently in large rounds some are 3ft across. Gave some to a mate for turning and have a pile left to sell. Based Haslemere on the Surrey / West Sussex border. Prob too far for you but can load this end with a machine onto trailer etc. If you want pictures of any of it let me know. 

Anyone got knowledge of sourcing a new hydraulic pump for a Danequip / dosko stump grinder? 

Spoke to Danequip today and the replacement pump was eye wateringly expensive. Thought Id see if anyone knew what pump it is or if they have sourced a replacement before I get around to picking it up with the forklift to look for part numbers etc 

Cheers 

14 hours ago, difflock said:

Thoughts please.

Mth

What do you want it to do / use it for? There's a big difference between having a commercial body version and a car like version. 

New defender comes in both formats too as well I think 

Is it a personal purchase or one through the company  

If its a business purchase just get the commercial one , reclaim the VAT and I really don't think it will matter which of them you buy, they will all be good cars. 

I struggle to see the point of the commercial bodied ones tbh. better off with a decent pickup. 

9 hours ago, doobin said:

Weren’t much use the other day were they 🤣

 

lucky your petrol winch saved us. What a bit of kit that is. 

I could drive around fine thanks.  I seem to remember cruising past your stuck ranger then driving around the bit you got your avant stuck in trying to tow you out without getting stuck … I’d say they are pretty good tyres 😉😂

and yes the Eder winch is a fine thing.  Was using it on Friday winch out some decent sized windblown in the woods.  Very handy tool.  

On 17/03/2024 at 17:04, Botty Cough said:

I did consider giving it to my farrier.

Depends how much heat is required I guess. Obviously dipping it after makes it stronger.

Being older the metal should be a better quality but I'm kind of thinking leave it as is ,. 

It's been well used and I kind of like that

If you reshape it , heat it with the oxy torch very localised to the 'mushroomed' area. Introducing any colours that spread could do more harm than good. Quenching after heat will harden it but its a striking tool so you will want to temper it as well. Probably 2-3 cycles of tempering. If you dont know what colours you are looking for at the quenching stage take it to non magnetic and you will be in the ball park. 

Personally I would just leave the deformation, if its on the original handle still, the head is part of the story / history of it. 

Running Maxis Bighorn M/T currently.  Pleased with them so far and very good value. Noisy on the road as you would expect but give more wet rd grip than my BFG KO2 A/T did. 

I think I will buy a second set of wheels and run AT again for the spring and summer .... if it ever comes ..

Didn’t look for a specific size but these guys stock hickory.  Try them.  

14 hours ago, JonnoR said:

I folks,

I have some lovely double bit US axe heads, but struggle to find hickory handles for them.  Any UK/EU source you know of?  Thanks in advance!

Jonno

23 hours ago, treevolution said:

Unfortunately not got any time till 22nd April.

 

Sorry I couldn't help.

 

Have you tried D and D hire for a small chipper.

 

Based in Camberley.

Camberley is a bit far from both me and also the job but had a look anyway. Seems they just have normal chippers for hire.

The hunt continues 

44 minutes ago, treevolution said:

When does the job need to be done by.

I have a a CS100 that I'm could come out with but booked up till after Easter.

Its already delayed because of the imposed restriction, was hoping to do it one day week commencing 18th 

Hire request for a narrow access job

I have a job in Cobham. Out of area for me but a nice days work in pocket of council woodlands in the town centre. Conservation area job, permissions have been granted but with some restrictions around access / waste removal.(Original plan was for habitat piles but council have forbidden that) The woods is completely encircled by other properties, chip can be sprayed in the woods but my chipper is too big to get in there. 

I have had no joy with hire companies on finding anything narrow access that will still chip 4 inch branches. Anything bigger I will remove as logs. 

Does anyone in that area have a CS100 or other decent narrow access chipper that will cope with chipping up to 4 inch branches. Happy to hire just the chipper or with operator if that suits you better. 

Thanks in advance

7 minutes ago, doobin said:

I’ve known oak happily snap screws as it  dries. I gave him the option of the board for £200 and he takes it the English woodlands for drying and his builder does the rest. 
 

customer always right and all that!

I think that’s a good idea mate. It’s one of those things that until you’ve done them you have no idea what a pain they can be. Oak in particular can really bite you 

Bigbeech has a nice little kiln set up down the rd.  you could send your customer to him to dry the board.  I’d imagine 3 weeks or so in the kiln. He’s a good bloke and knows his onions.  

8 hours ago, doobin said:

It’s 550mmx3100mmx70mm Will be supplied to the customer as 8no rough cut oversized 250mmx750mm stair treads, ends sealed. He’s going to bolt them on the steelwork and bring them back once a bit drier after finishing the refurb to run through the thicknesser before final trimming and cutting. Total cost £300.  

Are they going indoors ??? Bolting them when green won't stop them moving, they will snap and pull bolts or the treads will split. They will twist steel plate when they move as well.  its quite phenomenal what green oak will move as it settles. Budget for some thicknesses blades. my treads rinsed through the blades. He will be looking at reducing them in thickness by 20 to 30 percent to get them flat when dried. do it evenly from both sides so the amount of material removed from either side is the same , they will likely move again if not as the moisture will pull out of the board at an uneven rate on either side.   Like I said earlier, I started at 75mm to achieve a finish of 50mm when dried. that was only just possible on a couple of the treads by a whisker.. 

Here's the staircase we built in my (still ongoing) self build. The treads have stainless rods internally that cantilever into the wall. I milled that oak 6 years prior and during the thicknessing process it still 'released' and moved more.  The treads are 1000mm wide, I think the going was 285mm. 

9 hours ago, Squaredy said:

Yes I understand, but freshly cut oak is of course worth a lot less than two years seasoned.  And of course anybody experienced in buying oak will know that they always look lovely straight off the saw, but when they are dry they are usually bendy, twisty the grain is no longer visible and there may be cracks and shakes.

 

 

I agree, that board is going to move a lot and it won't be uniform in its movement either because of the features in it. Its got great potential but there's a huge amount of work in that board to resemble anything vaguely finished. Green boards like that I just mill my own and dry them, I only buy dry timber so that's the only pricing I have to go by. My own milled boards I just keep for myself. They are bloody expensive now even when only air dried but sometimes I just dont have what I need milled or dried.  If they have been kilned or twice kilned to get the moisture right for furniture etc they cost an arm and a leg at our local mills

29 minutes ago, ucoulddoit said:

Was just thinking it would be good to know the dimensions of that board and guessed it might be 4 or 5 cubic feet at most? So £250 for green timber doesn’t seem cheap to me. Maybe the board is bigger than it looks?

 

Andrew

Not just the size of the board.  Also the grade of it.  It’s certainly a nice board in his picture.  I suspect it will move a fair bit around some of those features and require some serious thicknessing to flatten out when dry but that’s another matter.  
I’m sure Doobin will share some dimensions.  Fair size stick on the trailer in his picture.  No chance you’d buy it at that price in the mills around our neck of the woods, albeit they don’t sell green boards as far as I know. 

6 minutes ago, Squaredy said:

I would like to know what you class as expensive!

Maybe there is a fair regional difference in pricing on boards. Last one I bought was 16ft long about 800 wide I think and 65mm thick.  that cost me about 375 inc vat at Wests if I remember correctly.  

1 minute ago, Squaredy said:

I would like to know what you class as expensive!

If you were buying that board at WL West or English Woodlands both near Doobin and myself, a board like that air dried for 2 years would be around £400 plus vat with that character in it. Maybe 250 is fair all round if he's got to kiln it or wait a fair while to use it. 

9 hours ago, doobin said:

Finally got this big bastard roughed down with the 881 and then squared off on the mill. I was just planning to have a cant for posts, etc but there turned out to be some nice figuring. 
 

Found a use for the top already- an order for stair treads. £250 for a 60mm slice off the top. That pays for dragging the backhoe to site to get it loaded!

 

need to get myself a front quick hitch for that backhoe, would make it so much more useful to me. 

Nice looking board, £250 is pretty cheap even if it is green. 

He won't get many treads from one board, hopefully he will be back for one or 2 more 😀

I think I used 3 boards from a similar size trunk I milled to make my stair treads. Milled at 75mm for a finished thickness of 50mm with an 8mm steel plate under each one. Single stringer so needed to be stiff and I put hidden cantilevers into the treads to put into the wall.  Think I air dried mine for 6 years in the barn. pick sticked and weighed down. PVA on the ends and still got some wicked movement in the boards

Oak can be a cruel old mistress at times ..........

2 hours ago, Stubby said:

Just heard that Alan Waters has recently passed away . Good old woodsman and charcoal maker in the woods at West Dean . Very interesting old boy who was still working  in his 80s . Some on hear will have known him . The Village Idiot was one I'm sure . @the village idiot

Nice chap he was too, much like open spaceman, id only met him a few times at shows and had a natter. He was still teaching apprentices until not so long ago I believe. Well respected man from what I know.