Tree Surgeon Insurance

This is one that depends on a lot of factors. The term subby normally denotes a labour only subby, who would be deemed to be an employee. The payment on whatever terms they have discussed is open. A bona fide sub contractor, as a rule will do the job for a fixed price (profit and reward) and bring his own staff in to assist. I use the term as a 'rule' because every case is different. We have also seen jobs passed down the line to what to me are clearly defined business's which I would put def in the bona fide group, then something goes wrong. The in come the solicitors letters stating they were labour only etc etc.

Paul, I agree but some of the rubbish we hear makes you wonder.

What does the bona fide subby do and how do they get paid?

The question here is are they a bona fide subby? It is pretty much impossible for a climber or groundsman on day rate to be a bona fide subby, so the law would see them both as employees. Maybe in a different scenario such as having somebody in with a JCB it could be different. You should be very careful about mixing bona fide subbies and labour only subbies. You are required by law to display your EL certificate and then if a bona fide subby is in a position to see it, an assumption could be made.... and yes this does happen. As always whether customers of ours or not you are free too call for further advice. Tree Surgeon Insurance 01732 373864

Well its hard to be exact without really discussing this fully but if you are being 'told' you are in charge by somebody you clearly aren't-they are giving the orders. If you want o call us then feel free 01732 373864. Ask for Simon

Employers Liability Insurance is a legal requirement if you are using labour only subbies, with very few exceptions. You can find a lot more information on this at https://www.treesurgeoninsurance.co.uk/guide/ . The insurance guide gives some examples of a labour only subbie. I would also point out that it does not depend on the cover the lead contractor has, It is all about the relationship with them. It is almost impossible for a groundsman or climber on day rate to be a bona-fide subbie. It a real shame that after being the law for 50 years we still have to debate this issue!

Good answer. But why would you insure your TV, tools or pets on that basis. Also the best type of polices have a maximum claim period to age 65, not just one or two years. You should get a quote!

So why would anybody not have it? A lot of people think they are covered at work. But Employers Liability Insurance covers the employer and not the staff. It is something everybody should consider.

Steve yes thanks for your patience on this and yes you did a great job. The big questions is why do most Arborists insure their chainsaws and not their eyes??

Well it really is people have done nothing or hugely over reacted. I have had our own clients emailing us requesting permission to keep our email details??? I spoke to a firm of accountants who will only use post because it is not covered by GDPR??? They seemed to think that you had to stop sending stuff by emails. I guess your view is that people join a chat site to communicate so there is a bit of an soft opt into Arb Talk? Everybody seems to have panicked.

The Burning Are you aware that the new data protection rules have now come into play? These have profound implications for all businesses but it seems people have either hugely over reacted or not reacted at all! So have you burnt your client’s details in order to comply or have you taken the view that you have a existing relationship where ‘communication is part of that relationship’? We keep getting asked what people should do. So here is our advice: • Look at https://ico.org.uk/…/guide-to-the-general-data-protection-…/ • Listening to https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09xcshq • Make sure you can justify why you hold personal data – for staff/ subbies/ customers and prospects • Don’t over react. Don’t destroy the data you hold without looking at the rules So what are you doing to comply? Please don’t say nothing as we all hold data in some form.

The issue is most subbies are not Bona fide. They fall under the labour only sub contractors definition.

How is that scare mongering ? It is a very high profile case with huge implications for subbies in all industries.

Plumber Kills Subbies! https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44465639 Time to evolve????? If you need a business insurance quotation please call us now on 01732 373864 www.tsins.co.uk

We frequently talk about labour subbies here but another important question is what makes somebody a bona-fide subcontractor. Before I discuss this, it is important to make it clear that there is NO cast iron criteria and this discussion is meant as broad guidance and you need to discuss this with your own legal advisers. So, what is a bona fide subcontractor? Well it’s difficult to be exact as the definition has many variables. It is easier to give a specific example of when somebody ‘might’ be a bona-fide subcontractor. Let’s say you get a JCB and driver in to clear some earth or dig a hole. They have their own very expensive plant, which you do not know how to use, so therefore you cannot instruct them or take charge. They have quoted you a rate for the job and not an hourly or daily rate. They are working for profit and reward. They have their own safety procedures, insurance, work under their own steam and without your supervision. They won’t be working under your instruction as they are very much the expert in this area. If this is the case it is likely the JCB owner and driver will be deemed to be a ‘bona fide subcontractor’. So what is a labour-only subcontractor then? Well again it’s is difficult to give an exact definition but let’s run with an example to demonstrate the difference. You use a self-employed groundsman or climber to assist you. You tell him what time to start and the way you are planning to tackle the job. You will be instructing him even by saying start at 8am. Clearly you are in charge and as such you are responsible for his health and safety. You are very unlikely to have a bona fide subcontractor relationship with any climber or groundsman. In fact, it is almost impossible. If you use labour-only subcontractors then with very few exceptions the law requires you to have Employers’ Liability Insurance. You need to be aware that this is an example only. There is never a 100% guarantee that a court would deem somebody to be a bona-fide subcontractor. I discussed this once with an insurance lawyer and I asked if there was a cast iron way of telling if somebody was indeed a bona-fide subcontractor. Yes he said. Wait until they injure themselves and see if they can sue you! If you need more information or a business insurance quotation call us now on 01732 373864 www.tsins.co.uk