forestry

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ps Normandy, Nothing sinister about not advertising it is Latvian, just never felt it needed to be.

Normandy, I admire your honesty and your strong views on Bio Security. I can only try to reassure you we take our bio security responsibilities seriously and do our best for the Latvian's who work for our suppliers. I personally visit them in Latvia on a regular basis and visit all production sites if for nothing else other than my own piece of mind. We also have drying schedules available to us for every container entering the UK. Agreed, we disagree.

Steve, I also understand your argument and your frustration when we both know that the UK has much under utilised and unmanaged woodland that could fill the void in the supply of pre packaged kiln dried firewood( or truly seasoned ) It probably has more to do with the fact that the firewood market in the UK has changed so much in the last 5 years with consumers being much more aware of the sense in burning good dry firewood. That is not me saying we do not have that in the UK, that is me saying we need folk to realise this and produce what the customer is now asking for. For me I am not a " at the coalface producer", I am merely a company marketing it, and the commonsense way for me to do this is to find a producer who can supply me with the product I need. I was serious in an earlier post when I said I would switch to a UK supplier tomorrow if they can supply me with an equal product at a similar price.

Steve, I am not trying to hide a anything, simply because I chose not to add my details on Arbtalk means zip. To be fair, it would not be very difficult to see exactly who I am by looking at previous posts on other threads. Here, this should help you put up a better argument - Niall Whyte Managing Director The Real Firewood Co Ltd Cairnhill Farm DUNS TD11 3LT Email - [email protected]

Steve, your right, your not really putting up a very good argument !

Ben, I agree with your post, however, at no point did I infer or otherwise suggest that there needed to be as much caution when importing cotton tee shirts. The suggestion from you that I had is rather disingenuous of you.

Eddy, As I have said previously, I completely agree this is far from acceptable and that was the gist of my post, I was suggesting that this is a pitfall for importing from an unknown foreign exporter. If importing is done through a responsible reputable importer ( I would always ask for references ) you should never receive goods that do not comply with current plant health regulations. Most importers are subject to FC Plant Health inspections both at warehouse facilities and random container inspection at point of import ( ie The Docks ). We today have a container detained for a general inspection at the port, generally this happens to about 1 in 20. As long as you work closely with your supplier these inspections should never be an issue, in fact we welcome them. Most exporters require full or half payment up front and this is where refusing a container can become difficult if you choose to reject. My advice would be to source from a reliable responsible importer or go and visit the supplier in his country of origin and satisfy yourself he is carrying out his business in a responsible manner. I would also advise that should anyone open a container to find what the pictures show you should immediately reject and close the container up ASAP, which in the case of the pictures shown, that is exactly what the person did.

"Do I have a choice we make very little clothing in the uk now?" Yes you do have a choice, just you choose to ignore it but are happy to preach it should be different for firewood because it competes with your business = hypocrisy "You can still make a good profit and run an ethical business." Yes you can, which is exactly what I run. My company has donated goods and cash to charity orgainisations in excess of £2500 this year, so do not preach to me about ethical businesses. "What is the minimum wage in Latvia do they even have one ?" Yes they do, it currently stands at 1.94 euro/hour. All my suppliers staff are guaranteed 2.5 euros per hour. "the cost of living is much lower in Latvia including the cost of housing so no way we can compete with that." Welcome to the real world. You do compete with it at present. I currently retail a bulk bag of logs at £144, I suspect you sell for much less. Did you mean I cant compete with you ? "Most large companies are looking to buy at a £1 and sell for £4 and leave the producer with 20p". Yes that is business. Nobody is holding a gun to the producers head. If you feel you are not making enough as the producer, heres a tip for you, put your prices up.

Josharb, Thanks, I am not on here to argue that importation of the product I posted pictures of is acceptable, it is clearly not. Unfortunately a lot of people on here claim importing firewood responsibly is wrong, simply because it means competition for them, yet they are the biggest hypocrites who will have any number of food, drink, goods etc that are imported. If anything, the product I sell is much more expensive than the locally produced product, which can only help push their prices up.

Nobody is arguing that this type of importation of is acceptable ! What I am arguing is that importing firewood responsibly and complying with all current FC Plant Health requirements is completely acceptable and is no different from importing any other commodity. I also take exception to your comment regarding slave labour, I personally stipulate to my supplier that the Latvian minimum wage is paid to all my suppliers staff. As regards pride in the forest industry, your damn right we should be proud and as someone who has run a forestry contracting business for over 30 years I feel qualified to state just that, however to suggest that there is the quality and the availability locally suggests you know the area I have lived in for the last 50 years better than I do. Perhaps you can give me contacts in my local area who will produce the same quality product I am looking for.

Yes I am comparing it in the same "context" when talking about, losing jobs etc. Where have I mentioned or disagreed with the threat from improperly imported timber ? We as importers take biosecurity very seriously and only recently had our FC Plant Health inspection which we passed without any issues.

Gensetsteve are you another person who only wears clothes manufactured in the UK, have a look at the labels on your forestry kit. And yes, the idea of running a business is to fill your bank account and yes " stuff everyone else"it is called is competition. But I guess you run a non profit organisation, your not interested in making money !

Absolute Tosh, are you suggesting firewood should be treated differently from every other commodity imported into the UK - with your logic nothing should be allowed to be imported into the UK. Check where the clothes you are wearing are made, I suspect they are not made in the UK, therefore by your logic, you are doing away with manufacturing and all other associated jobs relating to clothe manufacturing. It is not rocket science !!

I think you'll find I said beaten !!!

You've lost me on that one.

Where did I say no one in the UK can match the quality ? Where did I say Latvian firewood is universally better quality ? Should have gone to specsavers.

The appearance of the crate makes a huge difference on initial impression to customer, a crate made from waney edge boards looks less appealing. ( like the ones in the pictures !)

Looking for pure ash packed in crates <20% MC, 25cm delivered throughout the UK 1m/3 and 2m/3 crates. Crates to be made of square sawn boards, no waney edges. Interested pm me your best price on full loads ie 26 x 2m/3 or 52 x 1m/3.

Think you'll find it is sustainable and low carbon !

John, Unfortunately many folk are ready to put the boot in if it is imported without a just reason. Like your imported hurdles the Latvian firewood i import cannot be beaten on quality or price, believe me if anyone wants to supply me with the same quality at the same price with homegrown firewood I will happily sign up a contract with them .

I agree, importers have to show responsibility. We have recently been inspected by FC Plant Health with a site visit to our warehouse to inspect all imported stock as have other importers I know. I know of one who had to burn a crate on site because the conifer timber the crate was made from was not kiln dried and had bark present.

I agree, before I started importing I priced up buying in, processing and kiln drying myself, unfortunately I could not get guaranteed supply of the species and quality i wanted to sell at the price I needed. This was frustrating as I also run forestry contracting business.

...................... actually most French do just that !! ................ Also it may well have been kiln dried but it depends how it has been stored since then ! Think you might find there are plenty items they choose be it TV's, mobiles, shoes, Scotch, etc etc that is not French !