dillsue

Spot on Dean, but lots of people think using a subby falls under the "employing someone" banner which is not necessarily the case and never the case if its a true subby.

EL may be straight forward for you, but theres lots of others that are mixed up about it!!

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/hse40.pdf The link above will clarify the empolyers liability situation which seems to cause a lot of confusion at times!!!

The decison makers need to make the time to look into it NOW!!! As the issue has been drawn to their attention, they will be slaughtered in court if they delay/ignore the issue and someone gets hurt due to inadequate guarding! They would be looking at big buck compensation AND big buck fines!!! If they are not happy to accept the document linked to on the HSE web site then they should look at the EN standard for machine guarding and the table of heights that the HSE refer to. This should confirm the requirements. Its worth noting that as machine manuafcturers selling CE marked machinery they should already have a copy of of the guarding standard- if they dont, how can they CE mark the machine to say that it complies with EHSR's?

I've worked as a freelance engineer for quite a few years designing material handling systems and the safety and CE compliance aspects of systems and projects are all part and parcel of that.

Guys. If you check the HSE document linked to above you'll see it refers to an EU standard which needs to be complied with for machinery to meet with the EU machinery directive and be CE marked. If a machine doesnt comply with the machinery directive it cannot legally be sold in the EU. I dont beleive that there are any regulations that are "stronger" than EU legislation. The machinery directive is one of a number of what are called Essential Health and Safety Requirements(EHSR's) that everything sold in the EU must comply with. Older machines that predate CE marking may be exempt from compliance BUT still need to comply with PUWER. Meeting the current EHSR's should keep you safe on the PUWER front. Some of you are suggesting that you cant get near the blades on machines with lower chute heights. This may be true but nor could the guys who have been dragged into power feed chippers until they fall or are dragged in! I think the idea of the 1400mm minimum height is so that it is virtually impossible for anyone to lean over, loose balance and fall into the hopper at which point their arms would definitely reach the blades.

You answered the question about negating the need for insurance yourself in the last sentence- "good safety". Its my understanding that if you act with due diligence and record that by way of a written risk assesment, then you cannot be prosecuted or sued for negligence. No mention of insurance from the highly respected instructor that did all my forest based training- stick to the rules(two tree lengths, no cables, risk assessments, signage etc etc) and get on with the job. As I've said in another reply, regrettably I'm probably heading down the insurance route due customer requirements but wouldnt given the choice!!

It includes written risk assesment for every job but the "healthy" approach covers far more than a written document will ever cover. Being in a continuous state of awareness and managing the ever changing risks is what having a safe life is about. No H+S policy is required by law, so none compiled. A policy doesnt make you safe- common sense and a heathy approach do though. Not certain about the waste carriers licence BUT have followed several threads on the subject on other forums, and the opinion of what seemed to be well informed individuals was that so long as your contract with the customer included you taking ownership of the wood then no waste carriers licence was required as you were carrying your own material. Some of these individuals had discussed this concept with the EA so I'm happy to operate along those lines. BTW. Regrettably heading towards taking on insurance due to potential customer requirements!!!!

It may well have done so lets see what the display is like!!!! Personally I'm quite happy to cover a few grands worth of damage to a fence or garden and anywhere where there are higher risks involved then I'll mitigate them or wont do the job.

I dont know about the HSE giving specific machine approvals but I do know that this document exists on the HSE web site. http://www.hse.gov.uk/foi/internalops/sectors/ag_food/1_02_07.pdf If you look at the Timberwolf TW13/75 you'll see that its chute height is really high and awkward to load. Maybe they designed it like this to comply with legislation? I cant think of any other reason why they would make it so awkward to use. In the meantime I'm on with extending the chute on my machine so others can use it and I can sleep easy.

A very healthy approach to risk mamagement and safety negates the need for insurance. No licence required for brash carrying if its given to me(with the logs) as its my own waste that I am carrying. I do have a chipper now. Which other hoops? TPO's, felling licences, conservation areas are all covered in the CS31 course so I ensure full compliance. Things have moved on a little since the scenario painted in my first post and I have now started doing a bit of tree work to get paid- in cash and not just in logs!!!! Got climbing tickets, partner and small chipper- just need a few customers now!!!!

Just a quick word of caution on small gravity fed chippers. The HSE and the EU machinery directive require the lower level of the infeed hopper to be a minimum 1400mm above ground level. Very few of the gravity fed chippers around seem to get anywhere near this height. Just be careful if you are letting someone else use your chipper for work and the hopper is less than this height!!!

Guys. I'm new to this forum and to tree work but consider this- We installed a log burner to do our heating and hot water because LPG is too expensive. I had regular log deliveries from tree surgeons, and a chainsaw and splitter to process the wood. A couple of years ago the supplies all but dried up when fuel costs started to soar and the tree industry realised that there was good money to be made out of selling logs. What should I do? Pay the LPG bills, go cold and dont wash or collect my own logs? Cheapest option was to do CS30,31,32+34 get PPE and a trailer and collect my own wood. Taking down good quality wood for next to nothing seems fair enough so £20 per tree would have been a good deal to me at that time. Remember two good sized trees is a years heating which would have saved me £1000 in LPG. So the "value" of that job could have been as much as £1040 to me!!!!!!! Regarding the £500 profit for the day "felling a couple of large ash trees", I hope your customer isnt reading this posting because he wont be paying £700 for "an easy days work" again. You may well be finding that next time he tracks down the guy who'll do it for £20 a tree and the logs!!

Thats awesome. I'll only ever dream of doing something like that. Well done

It sounds like you're already doing the right thing:thumbup: The site specific emergency details need to be completed for each site, but this isnt the risk assessment. I have a single A4 check list that prompts me to consider all the likely risks. As each hazard area is reveiwed I just tick it off if its covered by the generic risk assessments. If the generic risk assessments dont cover a site specific quirk then I can add further comments/control measures to the check sheet so that the "quirk" is covered. The final check is that there are no unusual hazards on the site, such as the sink hole mentioned previously. Doing this I beleive covers all the reasonably foreseeable hazards which is all you can be expected to do. If I knew how to attach my docs to the posting I'd attach them for you, but I dont!!! Anyone know how this is done?

Unfortunately there isnt a "test" as such so you dont have a clear cut check list to work through and make sure you have covered everything. What you have to do take all reasonable care in the work you do. This means that you have to look at all the reasonably forseeable hazards that could injure someone while doing the work. The definition of "reasonably forseeable" isnt defined anywhere as it varies with every job and site. For example a gaping big sink hole opening up and swallowing the tree and a climber isnt normally forseeable and if this happened and it wasnt in your risk assessment you are unlikely to be in trouble for anyone getting hurt. However, if the same thing happened where you lived in an area of old shallow mine workings and there was a warning sign on the road up to the tree, then you would need to include it in your RA. If you didnt, then you would be negligent for ignoring the sign and local knowledge. The starting point for your RA is to consider all the hazards that the relevant LANTRA/NPTC courses include. As a trained operator you would be negilgent if you didnt cover all these as you did the course and passed the assessment so are expected to know about them. As an example, if your RA didnt mention a structural check on the root system for recent heave or excavation damage, and the tree fell over with a climber in it, then you would be on sticky ground as these are both checks covered by the professional qualification(CS38) that you have. After the basics you need to think of anything not covered by the LANTRA/NPTC that might be relevant to your specific task or site- such as the sink hole where there is a sign warning about subsidence. I've followed the LANTRA/NPTC checks and added a section for any quirks of the specific site.

Just like to add a couple of tips from experience in the construction industry- Someone earlier said they have less than 5 employees so didnt have to do risk assessments- I think that everyone has to do them for all work regardless of number of employees or whether you are employed or self employed. They need to be done to protect everyone at work and the public. RA's need to be done for all tasks so that the task can be done as safely as possible. There's no obligation to record the RA by writing it down or dictating it, BUT if you dont record it and an accident happens you may well be up to your neck in it! Picture this- a new freelance climber starts for you and as the supervisor you do a verbal site specific RA spotting a week branch in the tree. Your new numpty climber puts his anchor over the branch and it gives way. Without a record of the RA your gonna find it difficult to convince his widows barrister, and the court, that both of you spotted the branch and he was aware of it. With a written RA, noting the rot in the branch you probably wont even get to court. On top of this you've got a potential HSE prosecution to deal with. Again, with a written RA the accident will be put down to negilgence on the climbers part and not yours. Always do a site specific RA. If you format the RA correctly it takes 5 mins to complete and gives you peace of mind that you have checked everything within reason and acted with due diligence. For the small apple tree in the backgarden its your choice, but watch out for the taped up live elec cable running up the back of the stem to the point where the old flood light used to be!

His share of the bills. Doing the chores is payment for rent ie the roof over his head. If he cant afford it, he needs to do more hours and/or get a better paid job. Harsh reality is that living costs!!!

If the saw is only being laid up for a few weeks you dont need to do anything. If that runs into months then either start and use the saw for 10 mins a month or do as others are saying and dump the fuel.

Nice one Nailer. What happened to working on trust and behaving fairly?

If you dont mind me asking, where did you get the "part time" insurance from?

First tunnels is the place I've used for film and advice. The key to success is a drum tight fitting of the plastic. Follow first tunnels install instructions to the letter and the plastic will last for years. If the plastic is fitted loose and flaps in the wind it will last no time atall!!!

Thanks for looking- it would be really appreciated if you could put you hands on one. I know what you mean about not needing one due to simplicity, but I want others to use the machine and to cover my backside in the sad litigation world we live, in I need to have manufacturers instructions available!!!

I have a trolley mounted 4" chipper with an 18HP Kohler engine that has "SCH Supplies" marked on the side. SCH have stopped doing this chipper but tell me it was based on a Cramer 450. Anyone know where I could get a user manual?