BatiArb

Could you elaborate on this?????? I believe a straight question deserves a straight answer. If I do not know something then I will not respond without first checking with someone who does.

Scott, More peer-reviewed research papers are in the process of consideration and review for publication at the moment. One has already been accepted by the AA Journal so will be out shortly….. However, these cover its practical and technical applicastion in arboriculture. As for evidence that it works, well that already exists and its value as a tree assessment tool has been very effectively established and demonstrated by Giorgio Catena who is the Thermographer who developed the application for trees. Giorgio has published a number of peer-reviewed papers in different journals. This is unquestionable as far as I am concerned and no further demonstration is required from a scientific point of view. The science behind it is out there in numerous papers in different journals and books, you just need to do some background reading. It dates back to work in the 1960’s that looked at heat movement through trees. The scientific evidence is there for everyone to read and no more papers need be published to explain how it works and why…… I have spent a great deal of time over the last 5-10 years developing my own knowledge and understanding of the new insight this technology offers the arboricultural profession. This is what enables me to offer the explanations and responses presented here. If you need more…. Then it is down to you….. I will put in the effort to lead the horse to water…….. but then it is entirely up to you. I will respond to informed questions about the technology to the best of my knowledge and experience in thermography, ecology and arboriculture, accumulated over 20 years of work in the industry. I cannot do your CPD for you………

The external temperature or emissivity of the tree is directly related to the internal movement of heat. We use observations of heat movement through the tree as a tool. Functional heat flow is directly related to healthy tissue within the tree. The observations are of the current condition of the tree, regardless of whether dysfunction is historic or not. In this way it is possible to identify recently senesced or drought stressed trees. Unlike decay detection devices thermal imaging does not require the wood to become degraded in anyway before it can be identified. Thermal imaging is used to identify the ability of the tree (wood) to hold water and transport it within functional tissues.

Yes, and this is wat is observed by the camera at the time of imaging.

I am not sure why you get the impression the market is being saturated. There has to be an effective educational program in place to support the progress of this technology. This forum discussion is a classic example of why this is necessary. The biggest issue with the progress of any technology is the lack of education that goes along with it. It is essential that more and more people are offered the chance to learn about thermal imaging and understand how it can be used to assess trees. Some may choose to go on an use it commercially, but others will not. However, the important thing is that by attending one of the courses they are in a position to understand how the technology can be used effectively. Learning to use thermal imaging and the visual temperature reading provided by the accompanying images is very much like learning a new language and understanding how it can be translated. The thermal image provides us with very factual information about the trees temperature. The experienced thermographer like Giorgio Catena can translate this information and use it to make informed judgements about the trees functional condition. Arborists without a thermographic background can be assisted by calibration tools such as the TTMS (Tree Thermal Matrix Software). Regardless of how you approach any new tool or technology training in its use and application is essential. This should be obvious from the mistakes made by the early marketing of PICUS, that was rolled out onto an inexperienced and naive arboricultural audience that misused and misunderstood the results of the Tomographs produced in a way that caused the demise of many health trees. Training and Education are Essential. Continued Professional Development is Mandatory…..

This is your loss at the end of the day. We now have a very healthy client list which includes repeat users of the technology in both private and public sectors. Our prices are very competitive and our quotes are regularly accepted by return, so I see no reason why you should be sceptical of your own client’s willingness to pay for the kind of visual assessment thermal imaging can provide. Yes it is entirely possible for a well informed arborist to use a Nylon Hammer and VTA to assist with the evaluation of a tree and produce an inspection report that expresses an opinion on tree condition. However, it will only ever be a personal opinion expressed in words. Our clients like the factual presentation of the thermal image that supports the arboricultural opinion and provides visual evidence that is easy to understand. This is the added value which it offers.

This is part of the key understanding that needs to be broadly adopted and respected. PICUS is an effective decay detection tool that can be used to locate and map out decay patterns in the trunks of trees. It can be used to identify areas of ‘sound’ wood in proportion to areas of decay or degraded wood. It cannot be used to identify areas of physiologically functional tissue only structurally sound wood. It is limited in application due to the unreliability of scans around deeply fluted buttresses, especially at or just above ground level. Bark inclusions can cause considerable issues on some tree species (like Cedar) and internal splitting can also be problematic. Not to mention the fact that it is time consuming to undertake an assessment and impractical to use higher up the trunk or in the canopy. The PICUS TreeTronic on the other hand can be used to look at functional wood because it uses electrical waves that move through water in the wood. However, the results I have seen so far have been a bit unpredictable and appear to contradict the PICUS Sound Tomograph, and this could not me explained by Sorbus Int. when it was demonstrated to me. Thermal Imaging works by using the movement of heat as a tool to observe areas of functional tissue. The simple principle is that heat moves through water filled cells with good conductivity (connectivity) between them. It is therefore not a decay detection device. Areas (volumes) of wood without water, or where cavities/splits have formed, trap heat. Air is a poor conductor of heat in comparison to water, and air filled areas appear relatively hotter or colder than where heat is moving around the tree in functional tissue. Therefore by observing the different areas of temperature around the tree and the heat gradients between them it is possible to estimate volumes of functional verses dysfunctional areas of the tree. Perhaps the most significant thing to consider with thermal imaging is that we are observing the trees ability to maintain its temperature and therefore it offers us an indication of its reactive capacity. That is, how well it might be able to respond to pruning work. You could compare this to our susceptibility to colds and flue, when we go out in the cold without eating enough before hand or not wearing enough cloths. If we have insufficient energy to maintain our body temperature we are less likely to be able to counteract infection by a virus. Temperature also has a significant influence on cell growth rates and therefore the trees ability to produce reactive growth in response to areas of weakness. VTA can only ever observe a history of reactive growth and does not provide us with an accurate assessment of the trees current functional growth. It is quite possible to be looking at a reactive growth form produced by the tree in response to an area of weakness, but that has now no functional capability. VTA is a historic indicator and can be misleading as a result.

I agree it is misleading to compare PICUS and Thermal Imaging, because as you say they are measuring different things. The two tools offer us different means of investigating tree function and the progress of decay. It is a bit like a physician progressively using different scanning equipment to assess our health. The doctor will request Xrays, Ultrasound or MRI scans depending on the information gathered so far. Sometimes it is possible to get the necessary diagnostic information from one, but with more complex cases all will be required. I believe that we need to consider how we use tree assessment tools and make more comparisons to how modern medical physicians use different scanning devises to assess our physiological condition. It is all about gaining more information about as many different aspects of a body’s function, in order to further inform a management decision about treatment. A physician will progressively ask for more scans to be completed depending on the results of others and how clear the information is. When it comes to the cascade of assessments methods we have for trees I would loosely suggest that the following order should be considered: • Visual Tree Assessment by an Arborist • Acoustic hammer (Elison style) • Thermal Imaging to observe functional heat flow • PICUS / TreeTronic / Radar • Resistograph / DDD / core sampling The above list is ordered with a view to: • Surveyor expertise • Speed of application (therefore cost) • Invasiveness of equipment

Now you are just showing your own ignorance of the technology and how it is used effectively. The whole point and advantage of thermal imaging is that it can be used at a distance from the tree and offers a quick method of spotting issues that require further investigation. In a similar way to a doctor taking our temperature and using the measurement as a tool to assess our current health, we can use temperature readings from trees to investigate their functional capacity for reactive growth. When the information from the thermal image has been translated it can be used to evaluate the trees current condition and prompt further investigation as required. If an initial assessment of temperature readings indicates a potential issue with the tree, then the competent arborists should automatically look closer and I would agree that the Nylon Hammer is a very effective tool.

A quick point of clarification here… This was one of the first things that stimulated my ideas about thermal imaging when it was first brought over to the UK by Giorgio Catena nearly 10 years ago now (wow doesn’t time fly). However, it quickly became clear following discussions with Giorgio that it was not going to be possible with the techniques and technology currently available. There are two reasons for this: • Bats are not in tree features for long enough to influence the temperature. • Bats choose roosts sites because they suite their biological requirements at the time. That is they select roosts because they offer a certain temperature, humidity or aspect. It is possible to find birds nests in trees, observe insect activity (particularly wasp or bees nests) and other mammals can be spotted as well. As technology improves some of the more sensitive cameras may be able to pick out bats in trees, but we are not there yet. We use our camera to observe bat flight activity and find bats roosting in the open (within building roofs). It is practical and effective to observe bats flying from roosts, and use thermal imaging to spot bats leaving their roost sites in trees.

Well I have some catching up to do, due to a computer collapse just before Christmas, combined with a bad memory that meant I forgot my pass word. Anyhow, more comments soon to follow. In the mean time have a look at the attached, which offers a good case study of what is possible to observe through thermal imaging. Andrew Epping Forest Demo Data Sheets IH 2 (2).pdf

Four days left to get your CV in for consideration. Please e-mail your CV to me at [email protected] so we have it by 28th November. Regards, Andrew

Thanks for the support David, and it would be really great to have you on board as well, but I am also fully aware that the CofL offer you a very good package when it comes to work experience and CPD. Our contracts working for the CofL are increasing as we are currently undertaking some risk assessment surveys for Epping Forest, which we will be following up with thermal imaging. It will be interesting to see how this can then be used to better inform the management strategy for the ancient beech pollards and oak trees growing in association with high target areas. Epping have a number of challenges with the responsibility of looking after such a unique population of trees, especially when it comes to management their retention as viable veteran pollards. Andrew

Exactly... The trees on Hamstead Heath are within an area of natural beauty where the general public go to escape the formality of our artificial environments in town. Such areas are intended to be wild and allow us to keep in touch with our natural environment and therefore it is our job as arborists to maintain this appearance when we are forced to undertake essential tree pruning works when maintaining the inevitable tree risk requirements of public health and safety. Pruning work in such areas should not be something that stands our in any way. The test of any tree following NFPT is that a member of the public can walk under it and thing that it had lost branches in a storm the day before and the saw dust on the ground is as a result of the cleanup operation not from tree pruning. The challenge for any arborist completing the NFPT is that the end result does not require the tree to be 'balanced' or 'shaped' in any way. The tendency is to create even reductions, despite the fact that natural storm events rarely leave trees with a equally round shaped canopy. We humans are a strange bunch of critters when it comes to our visual interpretation of things, and we frequently cannot help ourselves when it comes to creating something we think to be aesthetically right. Nature does not deal with aesthetics in the same way, it is far more basic than that. However, we appreciate the results because they appeal to our ‘wild’ recognition of something that represents our natural environment (where we used to live before we started artificially creating our own concrete jungles). Andrew

Quite right........ So David what is your excuse?? :dancing2: And yes, it would be good to see some of those images in essentialARB. Andrew

The attached articles are intended to put this in a little more context.... From my point of view this is a technique that was primarily developed as a means of camouflaging pruning cuts in natural setting such as nature reserves or areas of outstanding natural beauty. However, the techniques that are now known as natural fracture pruning have increased both in diversity of application and use. With more practitioners has come more variation on the theme so a new area of pruning is progressively developing. I originally used a term of ‘verteranisation’ in an article produced for essentialARB back in 2002, but in a more recent publication produced by the Arboricultural Association I also described such practices as destructive pruning techniques. However, they are the closest we can get to ‘natural’ pruning from a tree perspective. PruningDestructiveNatural.pdf PruningContext.pdf

Always worth sending a CV through anyway because we are looking at some progressive expansion over the next year or so, which will involve the creation of satellite offices around the country to enable use to reduce mileage rates. This will mean using consulting arborists working from home. We are currently servicing contracts in Birmingham, Lincolnshire, Dorset, Hampshire, Suffolk, Wiltshire, Shropshire, Oxfordshire, Berkshire, Devon and Wales. Our main push for contract development is looking at complete tree assessment using a combination of thermal imaging and root investigation. We also manage arboricultural issues on constructions sites and supervise specialist tree work operations including contracts with sensitive ecological issues. The current position we are looking to fill is to cover a six month period, because my brother is taking some time off to go travelling. However, we are fully expecting the contract to be renewed provided the short term arrangement works out mutually beneficial. Looking forward to hearing form you……. Regards, Andrew

Arboricultural surveyor / consultant ThermoEcology Ltd (and its sister company RhizoEcology Ltd) are looking for an energetic, experienced, business focused and highly motivated professional arborist to support these diverse and very exciting businesses. Our small Kent based team are initially looking for someone to fill a fixed term contract of 6 months with possibility of a permanent position depending on performance. The successful candidate will gain experience in; thermal tree assessment techniques, root investigation and ecology surveys, while also expanding their arboricultural expertise working on tree conditions assessment and development site survey contracts. Must haves: • ND Arb and/or AA Tech Cert Arb • Minimum of 2 years experience • Full clean UK driving licence • Prepared to travel and work away from home • Excellent communications skills and Sense of Humour • Capable of report writing Desirables: • Arboricultural practical qualifications : chainsaw & climbing certification • Local Authority experience with tree preservation orders • Working knowledge of development site surveys to BS 5837 • Capable of using AutoCad and ArborCad to produce tree survey plans • Tree risk assessment experience • Ecology experiences (Bats) Details: • Ideal start date 4th January 2010 • Salary –Negotiable depending on experience and qualifications Next steps • For further information about the role please either contact Andrew Cowan or Iain Hamnett on 0845 658 1400 • To express your interest please email your CV and a 1 page covering letter to Iain Hamnett [email protected] or Andrew Cowan [email protected] • Closing date 28th November 2009 Unique Career Opportunity.............. Working at the cutting edge of tree work and consultancy in the crossover between arboriculture and ecology requires the development of innovative ideas, techniques and working methods. New markets are revealed that require the attention of self motivated, forward thinking, business minded arborists to expand and take on to the next level. Are you looking for a business idea to develop with a team who can help you expand your knowledge and professional experience ? Do you want to explore new ideas, working in a company that appreciates your initiative and encourages continued professional development (CPD) ? We are always looking for practical arborists, surveyors, arboricultural consultants and business associates interested in joining the team to expand the company’s capabilities to achieve the highest standards of professional service and set the benchmark in new areas of arboricultural work. Would you like to work with us?

Well, at the risk of truning the thread into an amusing photo display...... Remind you of anything ??????????

I was looking at a beech tree the other day and considering the current liability associated with a twin stem with an included bark union. Looking at old pruning wounds up the trunk it appeared that the tree had quite a few branches that would have been growing in the direction of the subordinate stem, that I was now looking at with thoughts of when it might fail. Now this lead to me wondering again, if these branches had not been removed by an arborist, whether one of them might just have fused to the side stem and formed a bracing bridge between the two sides of the fork. These thoughts then provoked further musings about our use of standardised work specifications like the one used for ‘cleaning out’ the canopy of trees, which stipulates the removal of crossing branches. It appears to me that trees have a clear ability to form natural grafts between branches and in doing so reinforce their crown framework. Such natural grafting appears particularly prevalent on trees that we consider to be prone to branch or limb failure due to week forks or branch attachment. So it then has to be asked whether the structural weaknesses within these crown forms is a result of the trees tendency for weak attachment or whether a history of over diligent pruning by a short sighted human has compromised the trees ability to optimise its own structural form.

Just in case there are some who have not seen information else where I am involved in a seminar next week that looks at some of the intersting biomechanics that have stimulated this thread. Tree Physiology Seminar 20th October 2009 This one day seminar looks at tree physiology with an international perspective, from the bio-mechanical interactions of tree roots with decay fungi explored by Andrew Cowan, to the biology of decay in living trees researched by David Lonsdale, followed by the dynamics of reactive growth strategies observed by Cassian Humphreys in the unique tree populations of Australia. Speakers - Andrew Cowan - David Lonsdale - Cassian Humphreys Benefits This seminar will increase your understanding in tree physiology, further your appreciation for the benefits of fungi and wonder at the dynamic survival strategy of trees. Itinerary The day will start with coffee at 9:30 with a prompt 10am start. The format of the day will include a series of presentations and discussion. Lunch and afternoon coffee will be provided. Thermal Imaging Tree Assessment (Day 1) Training 21st October 2009 This single day training can forms part of a three day training programme to put you on the way to obtaining a UK licence to offer a thermal tree assessment service in the UK. However, even if you don’t want to complete the full training programme, many people attend this training day to provide an excellent introduction into the principles of thermography and its application into arboriculture. Speakers - Dr Marcus Bellett-Travers - Andrew Cowan Benefits This seminar will provide you with a fundamental knowledge of Thermography and its application to trees as well as commencing the thermal imaging training programme. Itinerary The day will start with coffee at 9:30 with a prompt 10am start. The format of the day will be a morning session followed by lunch and afternoon session (with coffee). Contact 0845 658 1400 or [email protected]

I believe that it has more influence than we (westerners) give it credit. If the moon has enough power to cause the seas of the world to rise and fall twice a day in tidal flow then surely it will also have an influence on every other fluid organism on earth.

:thumbup: David, This is exactly the question that has been proposed by a friend of mine in Australia who has been observing similar reactive growth mechanisms in the Eucalyptus populations over there. He now has a significant number of examples of twin stem (tight forks) appearing to brace themselves. This process appear to take place in a number of ways involving a combination of adventitious bulges grown from the stem, re-enforcement of the fork union itself and integration of lateral branches to form braces. Personally I think these observations of Eucalypts in Australia provide us with an insight into what trees are capable of if left to their own devises and provided with the opportunity to adapt in their own time. The issue is that our trees in the northern hemisphere are growing so much slower in comparison to us, and we do not give them the chance to do what they are adapted to do naturally. In Australia the tree species and climatic conditions (closer to the equator) allow for much faster adaptational development so we can actually observe these growth mechanisms and appreciate the capabilities of trees to deal with their own mechanical optimisation, without the need for intervention from a species that thinks it knows better…….. Regards, Andrew PS. I would like to load the pdf's but the ArbTalk site will not allow me to do so at the moment. Will search for some photos later but do not have the time now.

All standard road tool compressors will release oil through the air stream, unless the machine has been supplied without an oil feed. Old machines used crack oils from the engine to lubricate the road tools such as jack hammers. Newer compressors have a separate oil feed into the air stream to do the same job. We purchased a compressor which was specified to be supplied without oil feed,. When we hire in machines for sites further from home, we use a purpose built mobile filter system to remove oil from the air stream.

I would not make a decision either way without cutting through the bracket to look at the colour of the pours. Clearest way to distinguish between the two fungi is to look at the pour colour. The following images should provide you with the necessary guide. Rigidoporus ulmarius has orange/brown pours. Meanwhile, Perenniporia fraxinea has creamy white pours and produces white spores. This can clearly be seen in the images below. The first three images are of a Rigidoporus bracket on sycamore, and the last two images are of Perenniporia on ash.