DriveLink

Because the tie-strap between the two cutters is where the chain was joined. ---- As well as looking at the most damaged cutter, also check out the shortest cutter as that's the one to base the length of all the other cutters on.

LANTRA is the sector skills council for the industry and NPTC is now 'owned' by City & Guilds. Anyway, LANTRA do provide both training and assessment - but it's not quite the same as NPTC. So, whilst LANTRA can offer chainsaw maintenance training and assessment (for example) it tends to be aimed for farmers et al - rather than the arb / forestry industry. The NPTC assessment is generally regarded as the industry recognised standard for competency.

Looks like I might have one place on a CS39 (chainsaw from a rope & harness) course running w/c 29th September. It's 4 days of training with the assessment on the 5th day (Friday). The course is at Sparsholt College, Winchester. PM me if you are interested and I'll get you the full details. Thank you, David.

This is excellent information - I'm looking to move over to France in the next 4-5 years as we've a place in the Ardeche region. Any more information about tree work in France would be greatly appreciated! Dave.

So whats happening with this saw then - let us all know!

Hmmm, from the sound of this it could be a couple of things really - starting from the easiest onwards... 1) the carb just needs setting up again - in particular the 'L' adjuster (although I really can't remember what access you have on these saws to the H & L settings). Reset H & L to manufacturers recommendations, then adjust 'L' until you find peak revs at tickover - then backoff about 1/4 turn. Take the chain brake off and make sure the chain is not moving (if it is, adjust the LA - idle adjust - screw). You may need to re-adjust 'L' after that. Make sure you make any adjustments with an air filter that's been cleaned. 2) It may be that there's too much fuel being shifted within the carb - perhaps the needle in the metering chamber is worn or not seating correctly, or one of the diaphragms is on the way out? 3) You may have some sort of blockage in the low speed jet - or rather the tiny holes in the venturi that allow fuel to pass in to the airstream - if that's the case then you'll have to take the carb off and give it a really good clean. I'm just about to start a 7-part series on carburettors over at http://drivelink.blogspot.com on the 1st August - perhaps there'll be a little nugget of information in there to help you!?

Starting on the 1st August, there's going to be a 7-part basic series about how the carburettors work on a chainsaw over at http://drivelink.blogspot.com - I hope it's of interest to a few of you..? Cheers.

I'm pretty sure it'll just be to find out a bit more about you - your experience, what you want to do in the future, whether you meet the pre-requisites and also to give you a chance to ask any questions about the course. I very much doubt it'll be any sort of 'test'.

Ah yes, the ISA certification. This is an ongoing scheme where you have to accrue 30 CEU 'points' (Continuing Education Units) within a 3 year period. After the 3 year period, you have to apply for re-certification with another 30 points, and so on. It's a good scheme in that if you want to maintain your ISA certification then you'll need to maintain that study and improve your knowledge. Many things count as CEU points - it could seminars as much as an actual training course. The areas that should be covered include: Tree Biology Tree Identification Tree/Soil Relations Water Management Nutrition/Fertilization Tree Selection Installation/Establishment Pruning Concepts and Techniques Cabling, Rod Bracing, Propping and Lightning Protection Problem Diagnosis and Management Construction Management Climbing Techniques and Working in the Tree Safety Statutory Protection for Trees I think it's fair to say that there's something for everyone in that For more information on it, look up http://www.isa-arboriculture.org/content/cmc000084.htm and click on Arborist Certification on the left hand side. Hope it helps?

Please don't let this degenerate in to a "Provider A does it for £xxx, but Provider B charges £xxx" type of thread. There's a whole host of reasons for the different charges out there. The post was just to attempt to give someone who was thinking about forestry / arboriculture training some idea about what was out there - wherever you are.

I forgot to mention that the pre-requisites for the courses (and these are not set in concrete, but are certainly looked for) are... National Certificates: At least 4 grades D (or above) at GCSE level, including English (for City & Guilds Level 2) or... 4 grades A-C including English at C+ for BTEC NC. National Diploma: Grades A, B, C in GCSE in English, two Science/Maths subjects or a majority of Merits / Distinctions at First Diploma level. Foundation Degree courses would require at least one A level A-D and preferably in a science based subject. As mentioned above, these are flexible in that colleges tend to take a 'rounded' look at the individual applying for the course - if you've got industry experience already then that will definitely help you to get the course you want.

I hope the following is of use to someone who is wondering what training they may want... There's quite a lot of interest in the RFS offerings, and along with National Certificates, Diploma, Foundation Degrees and short courses it can be a bit overwhelming. Looking at short courses first: In general these are divided in to LANTRA or NPTC courses, and at the time of writing LANTRA accreditations are valid only for a set period of time, but NPTC have no such restrictions. These courses are good for gaining the relevant tickets required by industry / insurance and are commonly run over a few days. The advantage of speed in getting the ticket is potentially lost in the lack of experience and the amount of information that can be put across in such a short space of time. There are no pre-requisites (other than those laid down by the awarding bodies, e.g. you must hold CS30 before taking CS31). National Certificate (NC) courses: These are one year, full-time courses and have a very high practical element to them, with some written assignments and theory to attend to. These are often also accompanied by Secondary Learning Goals, allowing students to attempt NPTC / LANTRA accreditation as well. This is a good course for giving you some background information, as well as the practical sessions - so you can expect to cover something of silviculture, pests & diseases and so on. This level 2 course is ideal for those who will be actually doing the front line work and have no requirement for management. National Diploma (ND) courses: These build on the NC courses, and are two year, full-time courses. On this course you will be expected to cover more theory and slightly less practical. It's a good option if you want to be aiming for a team leader / foreman type of role. There are several assignments to complete and these have to be at a higher level than expected of the NC (level 2) qualification. Foundation Degree courses: These are much, much more theory based with some pretty heavy assignments and are meant for those who want to move in to a management level job. There are different offerings here - Myerscough, for example, offer a distance learning course which will require you to be very committed and methodical to ensure you get the work done (but is easily the most flexible offering); whereas other colleges run this level of course part-time over 3 years. This requires you to attend 2 days a week at college, and the middle year is all about gaining industrial experience. There's often some chance of getting those NPTC qualifications as Secondary Learning Goals too - although you will probably find your options limited compared to those taking the NC courses. RFS Qualifications courses: These are a sort of half-way house between short courses and full-time courses - and are a good bet if you are already in the industry. The RFS offer a Level 2 Diploma in Arboriculture and what makes this course different is the fact the theory is covered one day a week, and successfully passing the examination actually gives you an award provided by ABC awards - and not the RFS. To get the RFS bit, you'll need to pass 4 mandatory and 3 optional NPTC assessments. Here at Sparsholt College we've just started to offer this course (£1,180 + £103 examination fee). The other option (and what this level two course offers) is to progress to the RFS Level 3 Tech. Cert. That's a somewhat condensed precis - if you've any questions, ask here / PM me or email [email protected] and I'll do my best to help. Naturally, I'd love you all to come and study at Sparsholt(!), but feel free to ask questions about the types of courses wherever you want to do them. Cheers, David.

How high is "high" - I mean, is it full revs, or the same sort of thing that you get on 1/2 choke? When you start the saw - full choke, the saw fires and dies. Then do you move it to half choke, start it - at this point it'll rev high, but squeezing the throttle briefly should return it to idle. What happens when you just blip the throttle? How long does it take before it cuts out? The MS250 has that sort of semi-circular air filter that just clips on doesn't it? I can't remember about the carb on this saw - but could it be that the atmospheric vent on the carb is blocked?

I wondered if the following was useful to anyone..? The following picture shows a Horse Chestnut leaf with both the Leaf Miner (Cameraria ohridella) at top left and Leaf Blotch (Guignardia aesculi) at lower right. Notice how the leaf blotch has the yellowing between the fungal attack and the main leaf colour, yet the leaf minor does not show this. In fact, you can see the frasse left by the leaf miner in the blister at top left.

Can you give us a bit more information - host species, height of fungal bracket, size of bracket, any notable features (oozing guck perhaps?) and so on.

Is the choke sticking on? That would cause the saw to start, then cut out due to the fuel:air mix being rich.

I'm wondering (because I'm not entirely sure on this) if this is where the governments Train To Gain might come in useful for employers - essentially they fund training for an employee up to [their first] Level 2 qualification.

You could check out the RFS Level 2 Certificate - that consists of a day release covering the theory stuff. An exam consisting of four (? - can't remember of the top of my head) papers is then taken and passing these gives a Level 2 qualification. However, to gain the RFS accreditation the participant will need to also successfully complete a number of NPTC assessments (a list is given and the incumbent has to choose a number of them from the list). Then theory result and the NPTC certificates are then sent to the RFS for the award. The natural progression from this is the well respected RFS Professional Diploma. In fact, it's a good system - the student works in the industry, studies for a day and takes the industry accepted(!?) tests and gains experience and a recognised qualification. We're looking to offer this at the college starting September.

Lee, thanks for the reply - you make a valid point, but we would only ever have 4 people on a course for health & safety reasons. Still, it's true that it's nearly £600 a day, but we too have insurance, equipment, LOLER, premises, transport and as our site is Forestry Commission we also have to pay for the standing timber (and no, we don't get any concessionary rates!).

Lee, where did you get this £800 figure from? In fact, can I try and get some understanding of what this actually relates to? At Sparsholt, the 5-day CS31 course is £590 - the rest is NPTC registration at £29, and assessment at £60. That means that for the four days of actual tuition, the college receives UNDER £150/day; that also includes the free use of transport to and from the site, loan of personal protective equipment, loan of the chainsaw and fuel / spares as needed. As a daily rate that's cheap! Even training organisations / individuals need to make some money to live on - why begrudge us our livelihood - we're trying to help the industry by producing people that have some knowledge of how to use a saw, how to fell, sned / delimb safely and have an understanding of some of the environmental and legal issues too. In four days. I'd be interested to know what your / your company daily rate is. Also, the views of Lee are not that uncommon - how do we get to show you that training in someone is an INVESTMENT in them and your business?

I think you've made a valid point there 3dogs - refresher training should be mandatory, but if possible tailored to suit the company / individual. So, how do those of you running businesses feel about National Vocational Qualifications (NVQs) or the Modern Apprenticeship scheme? What about the Train To Gain scheme? Do you have the relevant information about these schemes / would you like to know more / do you feel that they are a way forward?

Following on from Big 'Ammer and Bob... I think you have a point there Big 'Ammer - some sort of certification after logging a set number of hours; and that's exactly what could be achieved via CPD. Bob raises some interesting points about being a member of a professional body - the dissemination of information, but the other things about having a trade body (and yes, I'm well aware there's the AA, ISA, RFS and so on) is that it's a way to regulate the industry as a whole. None of us want to see bad work done by those who haven't got a clue what they're doing and being a member of a recognised industry body would help the general public pick out a 'qualified' company to carry out work. The AA Approved Contractor is one example, perhaps it could be scaled back a bit for wider inclusion within the industry. [skyhuck] - In my previous post, the point was made that refreshers did not have to be via a training provider - just some way of getting the latest thinking out to everyone to ensure safe working practices, that was all. Read the whole paragraph next time instead of taking just the bit out that suits your argument.

The minimum age is 16 to take the test, but for training (if you need it), you might find that some training centres won't take you - That's just because at 16 they might have to provide 1:1 tuition when using a saw. But ring around to find out. Cheers, David.

CPD and membership of an institute were just ideas - I thought this was a discussion on how best to serve the needs of the industry? It seems that this thread is turning in to a them & us situation - employers on one side and those involved in teaching on the other. This is not what it's about - we both essentially want the same thing... safe working and new entrants in to the industry have some form of training. Personally, I'm on the verge of pulling out of this link as there seems to be little actual discussion! In an attempt to bring about such... here goes... Current system of NPTC accreditation (which is currently being overhauled anyway) seems to provide employers with a known base level of working knowledge. This provides a starting point on which those taking part can build on this knowledge via experience. I do think that holding mandatory refresher sessions every 3-5 years would be a good thing so that any changes in working practice can be disseminated across the industry. These refreshers could be via training organisations, seminars, completed at the various trade shows, etc. I also wonder whether insurance companies will want this in the future anyway...? Apprenticeships are a good way of getting staff trained - as an employer you get an extra member of staff to do various tasks and the ability to train them as they go along. Indeed the government are quite supportive of this (for example the Train To Gain initiative, apprenticeships and so on). Neither way is free and both have their advantages and disadvantages - so can we have a proper discussion about what your needs as an employer are (or indeed an employee) and how you see either NPTC or apprenticeships working in the real world. Cheers, David.

...and to carry on from Kingswood... Surely the use of recording CPD (continuous profession development) would be useful in tracking the experience being gained by chainsaw users / climbers? All teachers must now be a member of the Institute for Learning and record CPD; and many other industries require their people to do the same. Perhaps mandatory membership of a professional trade organisation should be considered? David.