Amelanchier

Ref?

Could be a stem gall - most likely caused by Agrobacterium tumefaciens.

AutoCAD LT 2007 - I haven't tried anything else unfortunately. And thankfully I didn't pay for it - works licences! I'm self taught and can do most things but every now and again I pick up a little tip from the various CAD forums or from someone at work and think "aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhh that's so much easier - what was I thinking!" I guess proper training saves time and effort in the long run.

Guys. Mr Bullman doesn't really need the hassle of being accused of allowing that kind o thing. Now if you did it by PM - that would be a different thing altogether...

I was looking along those lines earlier Scott. In the same paper (Arboric Jour Vol 30 No 4 March 2008) Dr Catena goes on to explicitly state [my emphasis in bold]: p 260 "Numerous case studies have been cited to show that extensive zones of decay are represented by correspondingly extensive 'cool zones' on thermal images. This relationship has not been investigated precisely, but it has been broadly verified by 300 general comparisons... Nothing is yet known about the relationships between thermal images and the different kinds and stages of decay (Catena 2003)." p 261 "...thermal images cannot provide such measurements [extent of decay] precisely. Also in certain cases, large cool zones have been found on stem bases that, once the tree was felled, showed only small volumes of decay above ground level." p268 "the technique does not automatically distinguish between different kinds of alteration... ...with current knowledge, thermal images do not precisely measure the dimensions of features such as cavities." Compare and contrast this with the following claims from the Thermoecology website [again my emphasis in bold]: "Thermal imaging is a proactive tool that allows the observation of physiological function in trees and can inform judgements about the balance between healthy wood and the progress of decay." "The extent of these changes compared with what might be considered optimal wood functionality can be detected and quantified." It offers a very high degree of precision + - 2 % Combined with a high degree of accuracy + - 0.1% "... provide a visual interpretation of a tree’s physiological function and enable the identification of decay and dysfunction." And this from the Trees Project Ltd site "Thickness of healthy wood can be accurately calculated with our new comparative imaging technique." "The method is not only used to determine the extent of decay but also the amount of healthy tissue present that will contribute to the continued survival of trees." IMO the claims are not supported by the existing research , they overreach it. If there is some more in the pipeline - great but it is a bit much to simply tell us that its out there some where and we should go and find it! Will it say "I'm not doing your CPD for you" in the references section of the new paper?

Indeed, but y'know sometimes the emporer really isn't wearing any clothes no matter how pretty everyone tell you they are.

My point is that historically degraded or dysfunctional wood can affect the external temperature of the tree - but this effect cannot be distinguished from recent trauma. It will simply show a difference. I know the theory and do not dispute the mechanics of TI - I simply maintain that the variables cannot be excluded in the field and interpretation of the images is too ambiguous to be consistently valuable.

Even with the eye candy, that's all any report is. Isn't it?

So cavitation in the vascular tissue results in a 'difference' in the local temperature? But the camera only measures the external temperature - the emissivity - so the cause must be inferred. Historic internal cavitation may absorb some heat from functional external tissues but how do you distinguish this from more recent dysfunctionality?

Taking the role of devils advocate further - I'm not convinced that most of that information couldn't have been proposed without the thermal image. Cool spots between the pollard regrowth means there is a central core of decay in the main trunk? Its a pollard! Its almost certainly going to have a central core of decay! I'll admit that the speckled white patches on the adaptive growth are intriguing. But why is the ground evenly white? Is the leaf litter really that warm in the shade of the tree or is this an artefact of the software? My armchair psychology tells me that we know very well that we see patterns that aren't there (Apophenia) and that we typically interpret those patterns in a way that confirms our existing opinions (Illusory correlation). My sceptical gut reaction to all this is that TI is simply used to support pre-existing opinion. That's not to say that a deliberate effort is being made to fool or decieve, just an inevitable result of the methodology.

Not guilty m'lud - 06-01-10, 12:04 AM Much as I would have dearly loved to see 2010 in whilst perusing the 'talk, I'm afraid I would have been entirely incapable of finding the power button on the computer let alone typing. Nice first post though - wade on in guns blazing. Mind the richochets...

Wish my german was a little better - did you see this on that site? It's gonna be the next big thing at the comps...

Well all the Plattons were accounted for on the ground during the work climb...

Matt - why don't you have a go at the Cutters and Climbers? Your Geckos would be perfect! I know its not a real pole climb but its a fair introduction and you could beat the perpetually hungover Steve B at the work climb while you're there as well?!

And here's the thing - this crosses into another division, the one between public and private ownership. I consider this to be another area in which we shoot ourselves in the foot.

Nope you were right the first time.

I'd tell you... but then I'd have to kill you all and I can't be arsed.

Hey guys look I think I got it right this time - I threw all the stat rules in the bin and went with my gut feeling....

But I guess I'm being picky... £5800!

You can't assume a geometric or exponential increase from three points of data!

Wouldn't the bollard have been better than the winch? Oh and another bonus of the bollard is that if you scratch it just right - you can kill all your cheap lowering ropes...

A fine set of caveats! What do you think the likelihood is of them implementing the mulching?

Thats a nice steady progression, assuming that continues it'll be over £4500 next year!

Absolutely. A reduction on a young Scots would look just as bad as one on a mature Norway Spruce or Turkish Hazel!

The PICUS doesn't record whether the material your testing is dead or not, just how well sound passes through it. Whereas the whole point of TI is to examine the thermal efficiency of the material - in plants living tissue distributes heat more rapidly via their vascular system. So you cant see whether a part of a tree is decayed with TI anymore than you can see whether a tree is alive with a PICUS. Its the interpretation that is the key - and that's the tricky bit!