Bs5837

[Luckyleaf]

I'm surprised it hasn't been blocked yet !

[oslac]

I wouldn't like to be Kevin O'Connor at the moment. That pdf will do the rounds for years to come and there are likely to be consequences for years to come as well. Can folk who ask for a free copy of the BS now realise (apart from it being illegal) why people cannot send unregulated copies around the internet. Even if Kevin O'Connor didn't upload the document, someone else who received a copy from him might have.

 

The document is expensive. Stupidly expensive but if you rely on it, you are likely to be surveying trees in relation to planning and planning requirements and either working as a consultant or pretending to work as a consultant, in which case, you are working in a professional capacity and as such . . BUY YOUR OWN COPY.

[Gary Prentice]

I wouldn't like to be Kevin O'Connor at the moment. That pdf will do the rounds for years to come and there are likely to be consequences for years to come as well. Can folk who ask for a free copy of the BS now realise (apart from it being illegal) why people cannot send unregulated copies around the internet. Even if Kevin O'Connor didn't upload the document, someone else who received a copy from him might have.

 

The document is expensive. Stupidly expensive but if you rely on it, you are likely to be surveying trees in relation to planning and planning requirements and either working as a consultant or pretending to work as a consultant, in which case, you are working in a professional capacity and as such . . BUY YOUR OWN COPY.

 

There are an awful lot of people studying who need references from it too. If I had to buy everything I needed standards wise I'd be over two grand, the course is over five thousand, books to date that I've bought well over fifteen hundred, where do you stop?

 

No -one involved in writing the standards actually gets paid, not even I think expenses, so why are they so expensive? London offices come to mind. Make them cheaper so every TO and Planning Officer has whichever ones they need, including all the planting standards, every tree firm can own BS3998 and so on. Make them cheaper and sell more, over two hundred quid for a paper copy or PDF is exorbitant.

 

Oh and yes I have purchased both BS3998 and 5837 myself.

[oslac]

There are an awful lot of people studying who need references from it too. If I had to buy everything I needed standards wise I'd be over two grand, the course is over five thousand, books to date that I've bought well over fifteen hundred, where do you stop?

 

No -one involved in writing the standards actually gets paid, not even I think expenses, so why are they so expensive? London offices come to mind. Make them cheaper so every TO and Planning Officer has whichever ones they need, including all the planting standards, every tree firm can own BS3998 and so on. Make them cheaper and sell more, over two hundred quid for a paper copy or PDF is exorbitant.

 

Oh and yes I have purchased both BS3998 and 5837 myself.

 

Hopefully I am wrong but the implications of your post is that if you are a student or if you are poor or if you have decided you have spent enough money on books and other documentation, then it is OK to use copyrighted material without paying for it.

 

As mentioned earlier, public libraries usually hold copies of the BS and will allow limited copying of it. Most Universities and other colleges have access to the BSI as part of its library system and you can view as many BS documents as you like.

 

Many copyrighted documents are passed around and generally this is overlooked because it is low key and small scale although still against the law but in the case of the PDF identified in this thread, it is a somewhat blatant (or stupid) attempt at providing a copyrighted document free of charge to anyone who wants it.

 

I agree with you that the BS is overpriced. In fact I would go so far as to say that it is a rip-off but that is no justification for it being uploaded by anyone other than the copyright holder.

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

Hopefully I am wrong but the implications of your post is that if you are a student or if you are poor or if you have decided you have spent enough money on books and other documentation, then it is OK to use copyrighted material without paying for it.

 

 

 

As mentioned earlier, public libraries usually hold copies of the BS and will allow limited copying of it. Most Universities and other colleges have access to the BSI as part of its library system and you can view as many BS documents as you like.

 

 

Councils (via their library services), universities, colleges etc pay for corporate access to BSI (and a whole host if other academic subscriptions) for exactly the purpose of providing resource / reference material and so in that case, there is no copyright infringement or "theft" of intellectual property.

 

There's no defence on the other hand for buying a copy then making it available online - that's just plain stupid given the possible implications.

 

Note to self, must make sure I never lend or swap a novel after I've read it again.....

[WirralBoy]

For the thread originator, and anyone else who may be interested, The Royal Borough of Kensington & Chelsea have published online a full PDF copy of BS 5837 : 2012.

There is a notice contained within that PDF stating that the only parts you may reproduce are Figure 2 and Figure 3.

 

It can be viewed here:-

http://www.rbkc.gov.uk/pdf/Document%2031%20-%20BS5837-2012%20-%20Trees%20in%20Relation%20to%20Design,%20Development%20and%20Construction.pdf

[daltontrees]

It has now been withdrawn.

[daltontrees]

I think we're getting mixed up in what's meant by reference. If you want to know what the BS says about something for a one-off reason, go tot eh library. Look at the screen. Write it down if you want. That is what libraries are for, reference. No breach of copyright. But if you copy it and take it home, then that's breach of copyright.

 

I use the Glasgow library now and again. I can look at screeds of stuff, pick out and note down the one or two sentences that I need and go home. I don't need to buy a whole document for 2 sentences. If there's an illustration I need the library will copy it for me. I don't eed or want whole documents cluttering my shelves and my hard drive unless I am gouing to be using them frequently. And if I am using them frequently they will be earning me money so I don't mind buying them.

 

Didn't one of the consultancies down south produce a free or much cheaper abridged version of te BS? Or am I imagining that?

 

BY the way, can anyone think of a better way for BS to finance its functions? I have long wondered about this but can't think of a solution.

[oslac]

 

Didn't one of the consultancies down south produce a free or much cheaper abridged version of te BS? Or am I imagining that?

 

BY the way, can anyone think of a better way for BS to finance its functions? I have long wondered about this but can't think of a solution.

 

I think Treelife produced an abridged version but I am sure it had to be paid for.

 

In my opinion, the problem with the BS (there are lots of problems with the BS but this is with the whole BS system) is that the document is a lead document for planning issues. There is no real alternative and as such we are obliged to buy a copy to carry out our work. The document could be a thousand pounds and I would still need to buy it. The BS is stupidly overpriced and there is nothing we can do about it. I would rather it be half the price not because I want to save money but to make the document more widely available and to show that the BSI are not a money grabbing organisation who don't give a fig about our industry.

 

The BSI seem to bring out standards for just about everything and then regularly update them so that you need to buy them all over again. The whole system is a rip off but we are just the little people and we do as we are told. . . rant over . . grrrrr

[Gary Prentice]

I think Treelife produced an abridged version but I am sure it had to be paid for.

 

In my opinion, the problem with the BS (there are lots of problems with the BS but this is with the whole BS system) is that the document is a lead document for planning issues. There is no real alternative and as such we are obliged to buy a copy to carry out our work. The document could be a thousand pounds and I would still need to buy it. The BS is stupidly overpriced and there is nothing we can do about it. I would rather it be half the price not because I want to save money but to make the document more widely available and to show that the BSI are not a money grabbing organisation who don't give a fig about our industry.

 

The BSI seem to bring out standards for just about everything and then regularly update them so that you need to buy them all over again. The whole system is a rip off but we are just the little people and we do as we are told. . . rant over . . grrrrr

 

I'm in total agreement, make them reasonable so no-one has any excuse to have them. Treelife do an abridged version of, I think BS3998, for around thirty quid. Details are on the wall in the lecture room but I can't remember all the details. I'm sure its on their website.