Moves on importing Ash as firewood...?

[forestry]

Not what DEFRA, FC and FERA folk thought at the Plant Health Summit in Westminster on Monday...I didn't see you there, shame you might of learnt about the Plant Health risk register.

 

The initiative of using RHI to improve domestic supply such as log pro was well received by a number of people that were concerned with EAB and ALHB. Have you completed your bio-security statement yet for your website or do you not give a stuff about UK trees and woodlands?

 

Hardly think that by putting a bio security statement on his website is likely to make any difference, a bit like self regulation, a false sense of security is a risky place to be !!

[renewablejohn]

I was not promoting Logpro or saying that LogPro was suitable or unsuitable for the purpose. I simply stated that a water based heating system would not achieve those temperatures.

 

That is the problem you have the likes of Defra discussing using RHI to improve the sterilization of timber based on research using high temperature steam or thermal oil kilns which everyone knows will work and then apply it to an untried and untested low temperature kiln. Its not rocket science you only have to look as far as legionaires disease to realise how difficult pathogens are to kill. Unfortunately low temperature kilns are widely used in Europe so just because it is kiln dried does not guarantee it is pathogen free. If I was in Defra shoes I would ban all imports of timber unless it was torrefied timber.

[ben_inthewoods]

Hardly think that by putting a bio security statement on his website is likely to make any difference, a bit like self regulation, a false sense of security is a risky place to be !!

 

I agree, it was just really a dig. However interesting that there was a lack of any real concern over the implications of EAB coming into the UK, rather trade, trade, trade. Perhaps this attitude demonstrates why proper regulation is needed.

 

I think Renewable John may have hit the nail on the head.

[forestry]

I agree, it was just really a dig. However interesting that there was a lack of any real concern over the implications of EAB coming into the UK, rather trade, trade, trade. Perhaps this attitude demonstrates why proper regulation is needed.

 

I think Renewable John may have hit the nail on the head.

 

I agree regulation of some sort is a must, however, it must cover a much wider spectrum than just firewood, the amount of imported goods coming into the UK with some sort of wooden packaging is staggering, fruit from all over the world, white goods, garden furniture, slate & stone from China, etc etc the list is endless. To be fair, the risk from firewood is probably relatively small compared to other imported goods. To suggest a complete ban on importing firewood is ludicrous.

I think i am correct to say the UK had one case of EAB which was contained, the culprit was wooden crates of slate from China.

[renewablejohn]

We are an island nation like New Zealand and should have similar rules instead where just the dumping ground for Europes waste. I had friends in horticulture who emigrated to New Zealand and in order to get there specialist horticulture equipment into the country it all had to be stripped down and resprayed to be as good as new. Thats how serious they are on disease.

[ben_inthewoods]

I agree regulation of some sort is a must, however, it must cover a much wider spectrum than just firewood, the amount of imported goods coming into the UK with some sort of wooden packaging is staggering, fruit from all over the world, white goods, garden furniture, slate & stone from China, etc etc the list is endless. To be fair, the risk from firewood is probably relatively small compared to other imported goods. To suggest a complete ban on importing firewood is ludicrous.

I think i am correct to say the UK had one case of EAB which was contained, the culprit was wooden crates of slate from China.

 

Look at both the Plant Health Risk Register and look at where ash fire wood is coming in from in relation to the movement of EAB from Russia into Europe. Wood borers are more likely to be present in you unprocessed wood. That is such the risk is assessed as being higher for firewood as it is partly processed. If it was not a real risk and was as you say 'ludicrous' ash firewood would not be on the risk register.

 

A few million quid has been chucked at resistance in UK ash. Shame if EAB wiped out the progeny.

 

What I would suggest is ludicrous is importing when a risk is identified and quantified.

[forestry]

Look at both the Plant Health Risk Register and look at where ash fire wood is coming in from in relation to the movement of EAB from Russia into Europe. Wood borers are more likely to be present in you unprocessed wood. That is such the risk is assessed as being higher for firewood as it is partly processed. If it was not a real risk and was as you say 'ludicrous' ash firewood would not be on the risk register.

 

A few million quid has been chucked at resistance in UK ash. Shame if EAB wiped out the progeny.

 

What I would suggest is ludicrous is importing when a risk is identified and quantified.

 

Ben,

 

With respect I think you are just anti imported firewood, I note your " dig " at another importer on this forum.

 

What I said was it would be ludicrous to ban the importation of firewood when there is a much greater risk from many other packaging's imported.

ie - The one case of EAB came from crates of slate from China.

 

You obviously feel you have a better understanding of the risks involved than our plant health authorities as they have not even introduced any form of compulsory risk mitigation.

 

We are responsible importers and as such see kiln print out drying schedules on every load imported. Our supplier is FSC certified and as a forester for over 30years I am well aware of the potential catastrophe if EAB took hold in the UK.

[renewablejohn]

Iain, John really does love the logpro.... Has he not signed up yet?.....

 

Fortunately John is not so gullible. If I had to design my own biomass fired kiln then it would be based on the tried and tested thermal oil bakery kiln technology used in Europe using the true waste of the industry of woodchip and sawdust.

[renewablejohn]

Fortunately John is not so gullible. If I had to design my own biomass fired kiln then it would be based on the tried and tested thermal oil bakery kiln technology used in Europe using the true waste of the industry of woodchip and sawdust.

 

Typical auto boiler used for thermal oil

 

http://www.kornfeil.com/uploads/tx_odproducts/BioTherm_05.pdf

[ben_inthewoods]

Ben,

 

With respect I think you are just anti imported firewood, I note your " dig " at another importer on this forum.

 

What I said was it would be ludicrous to ban the importation of firewood when there is a much greater risk from many other packaging's imported.

ie - The one case of EAB came from crates of slate from China.

 

You obviously feel you have a better understanding of the risks involved than our plant health authorities as they have not even introduced any form of compulsory risk mitigation.

 

We are responsible importers and as such see kiln print out drying schedules on every load imported. Our supplier is FSC certified and as a forester for over 30years I am well aware of the potential catastrophe if EAB took hold in the UK.

 

 

In your 30yrs experience (i only have 25yrs) have you not noticed the escalation of tree pathogens entering the UK? - perhaps some CDP might be useful (100hrs over 3yrs).

 

With respect to the risks, i haven't written the Plant Health Risk Register it is the authorities who have brought together a panel of experts and have used a well thought out methodology as a result of Chalara have woken up to an acceleration of plant pathogen risks.

 

If you think FSC = safe then i would beg to disagree. It merely tests that you are following the rules. If the rules changed and given the risk register they might ash as untreated or below threshold temp treatment might bring in EAB, which as you say would be a catastrophe.

 

Since Chinese slate crates (was that not Asian Long Horn Beetle?) mass EAB is closer to the UK sea border, therefore the risk changes.

 

I'll dig all I like, it is a discussion forum after all.

Edited January 27, 2014 by ben_inthewoods