Falling on an ascender and rope failure

[Arborjesus]

One of the lads that works with told me that a drop of 1 or 2 meters on an ascender could snap your rope. He didn't seem certain and couldn't tell me where he got this info so I thought I'd ask on here.

 

The situation I'm considering is when you've pulled your line through the back of the tree and you got it through a good crotch at the top, but it's passing over smaller branches which could snap.

 

I was thinking kermantle rope should be ok as the strength is in the core, but maybe not on arborist line.

 

Any body know the truth?

 

Thanks.

[explorer arb]

do you mean toothed ascenders? such as the croll & ascention?

some are far less tolerant of falls/ rope friendly during falls than others, furthermore the standard they are tested to allows for very little shock loading.

 

some relatively unscientific research has just been completed in japan on this subject and over the years several people in our community have tested these systems also.

 

the rope ascender combo changes the ball game completely! in fact 16strand ropers such as yale xtc & marlow gecko have been found to sustain very little damage where as core dependent kernmantles covers have broken, their core's still holding but the user sliding many feet striking branches & what ever else along the way

 

the loleruk guys doing the demo at the arb show were talking allot this year about encouraging people to move away from using toothed ascenders as an attachment point in any configuration/rope combo, as as you point out, if an anchor deflects through skipping or a branch breaking a shock load in excess of what the ascender is designed for can soon be reached.

 

the wrench & the uni perform very well in this config' but their are many un-researched combos.

 

the problem is we have no standard in the arb industry for our climbing systems leaving the manufacturors to apply en's that arnt strictly relevent. Many designers, manufacturors will carrry out lots of aditional tests to simulate their actual working conditions and as a result produce great, safe devices/ systems for us to work on. Some dont do this and we end up with things that arn't really FFP

Sometimes the aforementioned 'pro-tester's' forget to consider things from a certain angle like petzl's zig zag. Petzl employed loads of 'expert users' many of them prominent in our industry but none of them fed back to petzl that they had re-orientated the top karabiner whilst on a pole or added a rubber O-ring to hold it captive although after the event many of them realised they'd done this assuming all end users would do this.

 

what do we want from our systems? what do we require? until we answer these questions we wont move forward!

 

in answer to your question, maybe maybe not, depends on your combo of rope & ascender

[Arborjesus]

I use a rope wrench and VT, but when I'm doing a long ascend I stick an ascentree above (and connected to it). If I had a fall (due to small branch failure) i think the first thing to bite would be the ascentree, which could mean that the rope fails above the VT. Ascentree has teeth all right.

If I'm stood on the pantin it would be ok, but maybe not if I was pulling / standing on the ascentree. Maybe in the future if the rope is going across small branches I should just stick to the pantin and rw / vt.

 

Thanks for the info.

[softbankhawks]

There are two questions here. Anchoring and designing a rope system.

Using a second throwline helps to secure a solid anchor point.

Toothed ascenders and double braid are a sketchy combo, the sheath will rip and travel like a greased tube along the core for a great distance.

Opened shell cams (croll, ascentree etc) need to work in tandem, they need to be backed-up but the same can not be said for an I'd, rig, Uni and hitch.

What kind of rope do you use?

I use a non-toothed cam in a rope-rocket which can be seen as a back-up although I'm happy with a sole hitch.

[explorer arb]

don't clip into your toothed ascender, use it only as an aid, what rope are you on?i think the worst in the jap tests was tachyon, if it weren't for the stopper knot in the end the sheath would've come clean off the core!

[Arborjesus]

I'm on Marlow Aeris static (seems great although suffering ascender damage easily).

 

I only clip the ascender to the rw to keep the vt up. If I used something very weak for that, maybe I'll be safe. If it snatches it will break before the rope, with any luck.

 

The only reason why I started using SRT was because of not having to isolate the branch. To me isolating takes too long - quicker to drt up, so I'm definitely not going to mess about with a 2nd throw line.

 

Cheers for all the input.

[BenR]

Don't shockload ascenders, simple. In a rope wrench setup, I don't attach to any ascenders. Find something else to drag your wrench up. webbing sling chest harness neck elastic anything.. Less clutter Plus you can then do small ascents on just a pantin without needing a hand ascender/footloop.

 

Paul what ascender are you using for the rocket? Im using a croll or a ropeman but obviously not tethering it to myself.

[softbankhawks]

Hi Ben you weary traveller you ! I use a microcender. See the picture on my blog (thewoodenhand.tumblr.com).

I dont mean to 'isolate' a branch mate. Simply trailing a second line after the first in the direction that you have thrown will keep your bomb point and negate the cluttery ones. Helps in not having the rope jam on the cluttery ones too. I know I know it seems like a pain but I rarely pick up just 1 throwcube (even if I end up not using 2). Dont knock it till you've tried it!

[softbankhawks]

Tachyon was not the worst - dont want a good rope getting a bad name, the db's were all as bad as each other. One went further because we dropped without a stopper knot.

[Arborjesus]

Fair enough. I'll try the 2nd throw line.

I'll keep the ascentree unattached to anything, I only use it for long pulls anyway.

 

Thanks for your help, might be more likely to stay in the tree now.