Employees and chainsaws?

[Peasgood]

I am a partner in a farming business. We have ex/retired partners that do some work for us now and then and are paid on an hourly basis.

Basically it amounts to my dad has retired completely from the business but does a bit when he can and gets paid accordingly.

 

I assume he is now classed as an employee so where do we as a partnership stand if he decides he wants to go and cut up some trees down the fields in a work situation rather than a gathering firewood scenario.

No tickets and no ppe obviously.

 

He's my Dad, I know all about the wrongs of no ppe. I just want to know the legal position for the partnership if you could. Thanks

[felixthelogchopper]

I am a partner in a farming business. We have ex/retired partners that do some work for us now and then and are paid on an hourly basis.

Basically it amounts to my dad has retired completely from the business but does a bit when he can and gets paid accordingly.

 

I assume he is now classed as an employee so where do we as a partnership stand if he decides he wants to go and cut up some trees down the fields in a work situation rather than a gathering firewood scenario.

No tickets and no ppe obviously.

 

He's my Dad, I know all about the wrongs of no ppe. I just want to know the legal position for the partnership if you could. Thanks

 

If he is on the books, he has to be trained if working on his own and you have to supply all appropriate PPE.

Edit; And make sure he uses the PPE.

[Peasgood]

Thank you.

"he has to be trained" does that mean certificates or will "I showed him how to do it" suffice?

I expect it means certificates but "adequate training" doesn't always result in a certificate.

Or is it a case of "as I am the employer the best way to ensure proof of training is to be able to show a piece of paper"

 

He's my Dad, he isn't going to take me to court if he does have an accident (God forbid) but I do need the business itself to be covered.

[AlvinD]

He needs the tickets and there's the possibly of the HSA stepping in and hitting you with a fine. Your dad might not take you to court but someone who has been injured as a result of his actions could, still leaving you in the gutter about why you were using unskilled staff.

Edited March 7, 2013 by AlvinD

[felixthelogchopper]

Thank you.

"he has to be trained" does that mean certificates or will "I showed him how to do it" suffice?

I expect it means certificates but "adequate training" doesn't always result in a certificate.

Or is it a case of "as I am the employer the best way to ensure proof of training is to be able to show a piece of paper"

 

He's my Dad, he isn't going to take me to court if he does have an accident (God forbid) but I do need the business itself to be covered.

 

He needs to have his tickets. If he isn't and there is an accident, HSE will pull your pants down in no uncertain terms.

[WorcsWuss]

I BELIEVE, and you should check this, that this scenario is actually exempt.

I think that farm workers can use a chainsaw in certain situations directly related to the business of farming without any tickets, and possibly even PPE as that comes under the same rules as tickets.

Not sure what the score is with regards grandfather rights these days but certainly when I started it still meant something. A lot changed since the labour government took over.

Like I say, double check it but I have it in my head from somewhere that this is right....

[Peasgood]

I guessed that really but wanted to know off you experts.

Thank you for your help.

 

I will go and hide his saw

 

EDIT: I was replying to Felix rather than Wuss there.

[Peasgood]

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg317.pdf

 

This means everyone working with chainsaws on or in trees should hold such a

certificate or award unless:

■ it is being done as part of an agricultural operation (eg hedging, clearing fallen

branches, pruning trees to maintain clearance for machines); and

■ the work is being done by the occupier or their employees; and

■ they have used a chainsaw before 5 December 1998.

In any case, operators using chainsaws for any task in agriculture, or any other

industry, must be competent under PUWER 98.

[WorcsWuss]

Here you go, from the HSE website....

 

Chainsaws

The free leaflet Chainsaws at work contains everything employers and workers need to know about working safely with a chainsaw.

 

If you use a chainsaw on or in a tree, you should have received appropriate training and obtained a relevant certificate of competence or national competence award. In agriculture, this only applies to first-time users of a chainsaw, unless:

It is done as part of an agricultural operation (e.g. hedging, clearing fallen branches, pruning trees to allow clearance for machines) by the occupier or their employees and

They had used a chainsaw before 5 December 1998 and

The work is being done by the estate owner or their employees.

Any overhead electric lines are further than two tree lengths from any tree to be felled

You have agreed with your local energy network operator when the power is to be turned off

You have agreed with your local energy network operator when the power is to be re- energised

The position of roads, footpaths, or public access have been taken into account, and warning signs or barriers provided, or roads closed if necessary the directional fall of the tree is known and suitable, with a clear escape route selected

No-one (including third parties) is within two tree lengths of the tree being felled

The operator has a secure foothold, an escape route and as clear a site as possible.

[WorcsWuss]

Oh! Same time!