Zk2 user manual

[Dan Curtis]

In fact, LOLER aside, let's say someone falls out of a tree, for whatever tenuously linked reason, while coincidentally using a home made tether which doesn't need to be LOLER'd.

HSE read the manual, 'was that a sterling or abr tether? No? See you in court'

 

Good point, but.........were you climbing SRTWP? Yes. Is that in current best practice literature? No..........See where I'm coming from?

 

BTW, the most commonly referred to current best practice literature is A Guide to Good Climbing Practice - 2006.

 

Seven years ago..hmmm. Bit behind the times? Obviously this is TCIA SRT Handbook aside, but I'm not sure whether that is/will be recognised by the HSE etc.

[WorcsWuss]

Aha! It could be viewed as a climbing aid, along the lines of spikes/pantin, which, I believe do not need to be LOLER'd either. This is a whole can of worms!

 

I know where you're coming from and of course it should be checked by the user, but it's not life support, therefore has no CE mark and is irrelevant to LOLER imo.

 

You're absolutely right, but it would be a shame if a fairly inconsequential line of text in a user manual caused someone to get in trouble engaged in the very activities which helped the wrench to develop to the tool it is now.

What if it's one of Adam's whippell tethers which was being used in an incident which ended up being investigated

Adam, I'm doing this for you man!

 

In all seriousness, if there's a way the HSE could get our (construction) company, it's my job to find it and neutralise it before it becomes a problem. I'm applying that approach to this situation now while we have the opportunity which Kevin has so generously offered us.

Common sense has nothing to do with it! :lol:

[WorcsWuss]

Good point, but.........were you climbing SRTWP? Yes. Is that in current best practice literature? No..........See where I'm coming from?

 

BTW, the most commonly referred to current best practice literature is A Guide to Good Climbing Practice - 2006.

 

Seven years ago..hmmm. Bit behind the times? Obviously this is TCIA SRT Handbook aside, but I'm not sure whether that is/will be recognised by the HSE etc.

 

Also true, and that's where my lack of qualification shows up

However, it's only a matter of time before srtwp becomes acceptable to the faceless grey people surely?

[Adam Bourne]

Aha! It could be viewed as a climbing aid, along the lines of spikes/pantin, which, I believe do not need to be LOLER'd either. This is a whole can of worms!

 

I know where you're coming from and of course it should be checked by the user, but it's not life support, therefore has no CE mark and is irrelevant to LOLER imo.

 

I agree dan,

you wouldn't LOLER test a petzl carritool and as it clearly states the wrench is not to be used as a primary life support there for any old tatt can be used to connect it into the system!

[Dan Curtis]

Also true, and that's where my lack of qualification shows up

However, it's only a matter of time before srtwp becomes acceptable to the faceless grey people surely?

 

We will see. I'm not going to name, but someone high up and in a position to influence these kind of changes within the industry told me that "DdRT is safer because you're on two legs, you've got two pieces of rope holding you up"

 

He was not referring to double anchors, no, just a single Ddrt setup, and held the belief that if you cut one side of a DdRT system, the other would hold you.

 

If these are the attitudes of the people at the top, IS it going to become acceptable?

[Dan Curtis]

I agree dan,

you wouldn't LOLER test a petzl carritool and as it clearly states the wrench is not to be used as a primary life support there for any old tatt can be used to connect it into the system!

 

In theory yes:thumbup1:

[WorcsWuss]

We will see. I'm not going to name, but someone high up and in a position to influence these kind of changes within the industry told me that "DdRT is safer because you're on two legs, you've got two pieces of rope holding you up"

 

He was not referring to double anchors, no, just a single Ddrt setup, and held the belief that if you cut one side of a DdRT system, the other would hold you.

 

If these are the attitudes of the people at the top, IS it going to become acceptable?

 

You have to wonder don't you

Perhaps you could ask him to demonstrate his theory at about 60 feet

[Dan Curtis]

I could try, doubt he's been in a harness since the 20th century tbh.

 

Sorry for the derail Kevin

[Adam Bourne]

You have to wonder don't you

Perhaps you could ask him to demonstrate his theory at about 60 feet

 

[BenR]

We will see. I'm not going to name, but someone high up and in a position to influence these kind of changes within the industry told me that "DdRT is safer because you're on two legs, you've got two pieces of rope holding you up"

 

This is ridiculous.. the only way DdRT could be conceivably safer is in the scenario where you have someone experienced on DdRT trying SRT for the first time up a massive tree under time pressure to get the job done. Not knowing angle forces etc is the only real issue. Looks like someone high up in a position of influence needs to do some reading and thinking.. how embaressing for our industry as a whole.

 

Getting back to the user manual issue though.. Its not life support so surely Dan is right, it doesnt need to be loler tested. Would be good to have mention of the appropriate type of tether to use for best function though.

Edited March 7, 2013 by BenR