Muscles and Movement

[D Mc]

I very much agree with Old Mill on this. Ergonomics is derived from two words: ergon, meaning work, and nomoi, meaning natural laws. So it literally means the science of work and a person's relationship to that work.

 

Most climbers have been born onto the pulley tending systems, so have no reference on doing things any other way. Not so for me. Most of my climbing career was spent on a tail-tied system. For slack-tending, say in returning from a limb walk, you would pull on the rope with both arms then slide the hitch forward. This movement accomplished two things: introduced slack was never more than that created in a single pull, and all physical effort was applied in the direction of travel. The weight of the tailing rope was an asset.

 

Now let's look at the ergonomic differences while using a pulley style advancing movement. You can go fast by taking 3 or 4 pulls, then hold yourself in position with one arm while pulling slack with the other. Or you can be slow and careful by pulling with one arm while removing slack with other. This even sounds awkward to me while typing it.

 

With pulley-style tending, whether a pulley is used or not, at the very least, energy is spent that does not assist in directional movement, and at the worst actually pushes against the direction of movement.

 

With the exception of tools like the Petzl Rig and I'D that require the rope to change direction, all our hitches and tools are designed to slide straight up the rope with almost no friction ( when set properly ) and then grab as needed. This straight through design is facilitated by the weight of the tailing rope. It makes far more sense to find a way to utilize this feature than to waste energy lifting it.

 

Think about it, there are ways. The Pantin is a good example. It works great strapped to your foot utilizing the falling rope weight to assist in upward progress. Yet place it loosely on your bridge so it falls out of rope alignment and that may not happen. Would it make more sense to advance it by adding a pulley and lifting the tailing rope or spend some time in figuring out how to get it to once again work with the tail weight?

 

Dave

Edited February 12, 2013 by D Mc

[Adam Bourne]

absolutely great post mate:thumbup1:

 

 

but we have just evolutionised the way we climb in srt reducing the amount of upper body strength we utilize, surely we cant be getting to soft to let a bit of good old slack tending put us of ????

 

 

for me its an open book and im all for trying new techniques so im all eyes and ears, i just feel to much of a sudden change is not good, although change is what helps the world spin

[Old Mill Tree Care]

Thanks DMc for putting into text, what I had spinning in my head.

 

Adam, nothing wrong with sudden or big change.

You just have to look at the difference from more than one angle and figure out the best way to use the changes to your advantage.

 

 

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[softbankhawks]

I very much agree with Old Mill on this. Ergonomics is derived from two words: ergon, meaning work, and nomoi, meaning natural laws. So it literally means the science of work and a person's relationship to that work.

 

Most climbers have been born onto the pulley tending systems, so have no reference on doing things any other way. Not so for me. Most of my climbing career was spent on a tail-tied system. For slack-tending, say in returning from a limb walk, you would pull on the rope with both arms then slide the hitch forward. This movement accomplished two things: introduced slack was never more than that created in a single pull, and all physical effort was applied in the direction of travel. The weight of the tailing rope was an asset.

 

Now let's look at the ergonomic differences while using a pulley style advancing movement. You can go fast by taking 3 or 4 pulls, then hold yourself in position with one arm while pulling slack with the other. Or you can be slow and careful by pulling with one arm while removing slack with other. This even sounds awkward to me while typing it.

 

With pulley-style tending, whether a pulley is used or not, at the very least, energy is spent that does not assist in directional movement, and at the worst actually pushes against the direction of movement.

 

With the exception of tools like the Petzl Rig and I'D that require the rope to change direction, all our hitches and tools are designed to slide straight up the rope with almost no friction ( when set properly ) and then grab as needed. This straight through design is facilitated by the weight of the tailing rope. It makes far more sense to find a way to utilize this feature than to waste energy lifting it.

 

Think about it, there are ways. The Pantin is a good example. It works great strapped to your foot utilizing the falling rope weight to assist in upward progress. Yet place it loosely on your bridge so it falls out of rope alignment and that may not happen. Would it make more sense to advance it by adding a pulley and lifting the tailing rope or spend some time in figuring out how to get it to once again work with the tail weight?

 

Dave

 

Dave, your explanations are clear and precise and I see now what Old Mill wanted to say. I dont see it as a problem ergonomically, I find the 1-2 pull and slack tend motion as giving something to balance, but that's me, we all climb differently. I do agree that being able to pull oneself while our tool of choice follows us along the rope is ideal, and it's a tricky one to achieve on a single lined system I also agree tht the HH slack-tends as well as or even better than the Uni. Perhaps better because the Uni goes from tight to loose as it wears, I always liked mine as it wore away a little, I anticipate the HH performing more consistantly.

Ive taken a different path and have designed a climbing system based on a friction saver that allows me to fluidly change between 1:1, 2:1 or a re-directed 2:1 (three legs) so if I need assistance from a 'flowing' climbing device I can have it.

I'm a little tired of the SRT converts rabbiting on about how bloody great and ergonomic it all is. It's not. Our physical relationship to whatever we do can be ergonomic if we choose it to be....potentially physically detrimental if we do not.

 

I've started footlocking!

[recycledsole]

i like footlocking,but can not with spurs. sometimes i will attatch a 24" loop from my harness to the hitch climber so i can ascend alot easier. i am novice