Ash Included Bark; Should it stay or go

[TFABW]

The included section is the real problem for the moment rather than the cavity, though I have seen before the end result of such a rot column in Ash and felled or pushed them over. The rot means it dosn't have a long future stretching ahead of it rather than being an immediate threat. However when felled then allowed to coppice the stool could continue to live for many years. I have felled a tree further along the row and it was about forty years old, this tree cannot be much if at all older. The building however is if I remember correctly in the region of 600 years old, so is rarer with more historic value. Also liabilities have to be borne in mind.

[treeseer]

" The rot means it dosn't have a long future stretching ahead of it..."

 

How do you know CODIT will not occur?

 

"Also liabilities have to be borne in mind."

 

Most definitely. The first step is assessing them, and that job is not done.

 

If there is a question of rams horns vs. grafting (while no sign of incipient splitting indicates the latter), that can be answered with an increment core.

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

I dont think thats a particularly weak union, the tree is also vigorous, see bark cracks indicating recent substantial secondary thickening (albeit on a compression side)

 

The cavity has significant woundwood and (subject to a proper evaluation) is most likely stronger than the rest of the tree!

 

I would like to see more foliage/branches at the points of concern, its been over lifted and this doesnt help trees, direct placement of carbs really does help secondary thicken areas.

[likeitorlumpit]

I dont think thats a particularly weak union, the tree is also vigorous, see bark cracks indicating recent substantial secondary thickening (albeit on a compression side)

 

The cavity has significant woundwood and (subject to a proper evaluation) is most likely stronger than the rest of the tree!

 

I would like to see more foliage/branches at the points of concern, its been over lifted and this doesnt help trees, direct placement of carbs really does help secondary thicken areas.

 

If it hasn't already been said Tony

Welcome back- your insight is inspiring

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

If it hasn't already been said Tony

Welcome back- your insight is inspiring

 

At the moment, that is very much appreciated sentiment, I will try hard to ensure it stays that way and without getting "bullish":thumbup1:

[likeitorlumpit]

At the moment, that is very much appreciated sentiment, I will try hard to ensure it stays that way and without getting "bullish":thumbup1:

 

Easily done:001_smile:

[treeseer]

... its been over lifted and this doesnt help trees, direct placement of carbs really does help secondary thicken areas.

Absolutely true; it's common sense, and this adaptive growth is easily visible. re the cavity, arborists created it with a saw, so it seems fair to explore all other options carefully before responding to that same cavity with the same tool Edited January 25, 2013 by treeseer

[TFABW]

Are CODIT walls not weakest in the downward direction? What makes the union appear strong? Does not thickening increase the weight and pressure on the union particularly on the compression side, also the line of the joint is migrating to one side, the side over the building, I understood this was not good. The branch one can see removed more recently was not done as a lift but as it was dead, it had been tipped in the past sprouted then died. So the tree has suffered in the past from the saw though before my time and we cannot remedy that now. It would have been good if one of the codominant stems had been removed instead of the flush cut and tipping.

 

What do you think of the idea that trees without high value and intrinsic defects are better removed and replaced? How do you think it would affect the tree to have the stem with the line of union migrating towards its base removed?

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

Are CODIT walls not weakest in the downward direction? What makes the union appear strong? Does not thickening increase the weight and pressure on the union particularly on the compression side, also the line of the joint is migrating to one side, the side over the building, I understood this was not good. The branch one can see removed more recently was not done as a lift but as it was dead, it had been tipped in the past sprouted then died. So the tree has suffered in the past from the saw though before my time and we cannot remedy that now. It would have been good if one of the codominant stems had been removed instead of the flush cut and tipping.

 

What do you think of the idea that trees without high value and intrinsic defects are better removed and replaced? How do you think it would affect the tree to have the stem with the line of union migrating towards its base removed?

 

Q1) Are CODIT walls not weakest in the downward direction?

 

A) Yes that is correct, The vertical pathways within the vessels and the tyloses/resin pits that form to block them when air enters the pathway (dysfunction)

 

Q2) What makes the union appear strong? Does not thickening increase the weight and pressure on the union particularly on the compression side, also the line of the joint is migrating to one side, the side over the building, I understood this was not good.

 

A) I never suggested it was strong, I said it wasnt "particularly weak" Much of the resistance to splitting out is from compression wood forming on the outside face of the wood pushing it back into the canopy. Compresion wood in Deciduos trees indicating stresses but also vigour and adaptive growth. The "Joint" is only partial, and more a roll of tissues this multi stem form may be froma pollard which would explain the joint form. (That would need clarity)

 

So the tree has suffered in the past from the saw though before my time and we cannot remedy that now. It would have been good if one of the codominant stems had been removed instead of the flush cut and tipping.

 

Removing one of the co dominant stems would have made a large wound, and probably enabled a joining of a column of dysfunctional wood to meet the cavity lower down. This would have obvious consequences, another option might be to pollard the tree 3 feet above the unions allowing a new crown to form and be managed cyclically as a pollard say at 5-10 year intervals. Maintaining size and screening, and a supply of Bio fuel, wood for the stove if required, and a hollowing stem for wildlife.

 

What do you think of the idea that trees without high value and intrinsic defects are better removed and replaced? How do you think it would affect the tree to have the stem with the line of union migrating towards its base removed?

 

Yes removals always an option, especially where there is a group of trees and removal of one, say the middle tree in a group of three, might allow better development and form in the others given a little extra space to grow. Sometimes it can be highly beneficial to the wider tree population to have a few removed. where defects or "issues" exists this helps evaluate where thinning of trees can be highly beneficial to tree health and reduce other issues at the same time.

[treeseer]

Yes removals always an option, especially where there is a group of trees and removal of one, say the middle tree in a group of three, might allow better development and form in the others given a little extra space to grow. Sometimes it can be highly beneficial to the wider tree population to have a few removed. where defects or "issues" exists this helps evaluate where thinning of trees can be highly beneficial to tree health and reduce other issues at the same time.

 

True. Removal can also be a detriment to the health and safety of nearby trees and branches, as they are newly exposed. It's a site-dependent decision, which must be informed by first establishing the objective. If human safety is the objective, removing this tree might increase overall risk, so pruning may be a better option.