Working in France advice thread.

[Ty Korrigan]

Agree with most of what has been said so far. I was micro with MSA as it was before AE came out. Before I forget, with MSA you can opt to be a "cotissant de solidarité" which means you can opt out of paying "retraite" (pension) contributions. There is absolutely no point paying these if you will only be in the system for a few years - or less than 40 - as you will get centimes only back! Basically, I just carried on making the same private pension arrangements as I'd been used to doing self-employed in UK.

Bucheron

 

Ah, nowadays, your 'trimestre' worked are counted towards your U.K state pension in some cross border agreement.

So when you retire at 60 in France, you draw what seems to be a tiny pension but then you can also draw your pro-rata U.K pension when you reach 90 or not draw a French pension and wait until you reach U.K retirement age at 75... or will it be 80?

You can also contribute to your U.K pension whilst working overseas which is a good idea as it only costs around £650 for a years contributions.

Also you can buy back lost years when (if) you return to the U.K.

Also, as a self employed person here you will pay into the French pension regardless unless you elect to be a cotisante solidaire and stay under the 8k threshold.

As ever, don't take my word as gospel please but get serious up to date advice from a 'French' accountant who speaks English and is used to dealing with the MSA.

Edited May 30, 2013 by Ty Korrigan
Correcting wrongs with further wrongs...

[Bucheron]

Evenin'

 

Possibly talking at slightly cross purposes here Ty. I meant to imply that the work one may do in France as a self-employed bod UK registered, WAS for specific contracts, or a one-off. Not merely looking for work. My reference for the Inspecteur was about a year old so reasonably up to date. The whole business of residency and domicile is not necessarily as straight forward as you imply either. There are a number of factors like where your center of wealth is, property owned etc. And the 2 tax authorities need to agree as the central tenate of the double tax treaty is that you don't pay twice but you DO need to declare twice if there is any doubt. And of course the UK and French definitions of terms are not the same. Two years on the trot I had self-employed income derived from France and UK, as well as employed income from both countries. One year I paid UK tax the next French. And the tax years are not the same!

 

However, I am in total agreement that ANY French registered business must have a SIRET number but as long as you have done it all by the book there is NO impediment to contracts (which all my jobs were max about 2 months) in France being completed by Uk businesses. But you must get it right, follow the rules and be transparent. If you tell everyone comme il faut then you can do it. (At least I've got that in writing from the Insp de Trav!!

 

Incidentally, although I was resident physically for more than the 180 days taking any tax year (I was permanent..) INITIALLY the Fr authorities confirmed that I remained domiciled in the UK as I had not bought property. It was complicated I can tell you......

 

B

 

PS: This is not meant to imply that a permanent state of affairs working in Fr as a UK self-employed person should, would or could continue. Mine lasted about 30 months before I registered with MSA and Co and got a SIRET number. The bigger organisations were much more comfortable using workers with the appropriate French registration, as they get into big trouble to if they are found using illegal workers. So it is ultimately good for business if you register!

Edited May 30, 2013 by Bucheron

[Ty Korrigan]

Your right and my grasp of international financial law is slim BUT...

I do have my own tame international financial lawyer on hand to pose questions too.

Although, I'll give him the night off and concede I know nothing after all...hhh:001_tongue:

 

Regards

[Bucheron]

"As ever, don't take my word as gospel please but get serious up to date advice from a 'French' accountant who speaks English and is used to dealing with the MSA."

 

Please don't take the following as IN ANY WAY patronising - it is not meant to be. But, I would really like to stress again the value of crashing through the pain barrier linguistically and not finding accountants who speak English. It is of immeasurable value to integrate to the max and that means lingo, attitudes and culture. If you can't get by in Fr with an accountant (again please accept any apologies if denigrating your French..) then you would sink without trace in the forestry world that I knew. And if getting work is the point of this thread and the life style change of moving out, then you'd be limiting yourself. A lot of the accountant thing is "just "vocab but it is also getting to understand the system from the inside. Same for the woods. Identical. Except that the guys you are dealing with are on the whole not as "educated" in the formal sense as the average accountant and have often ghastly regional accents to deal with, so the problem is worse. I never bothered with an accountant - just more expense - as I found MSA as well as the tax inspectors and other players in the game extremely helpful. But I adopted a rather aggressively pro French attitiude in all areas - linguistically, culturally etc. - right from the start. Painful at times but of immense benefit in terms of business and general life. Nowadays I'd rather speak French than Eng - fabulous language.

 

Respectfully offered for those who might be considering a move. You've GOT to learn the language. Just my opinion but I can justify it with the results.

 

Amicalement,

 

B

 

PS: I would not have looked to sub contract or recommend folk for work if I could not have satisfied myself as to their level of French. The chances of a mal entendu for big contracts with complicated specialised vocab would have been just too high.

[Ty Korrigan]

Your right, the language can only be learned through total immersion.

On the job, in the Saturday market and at soirees with neighbours.

I personally find French telly is utter shoite other than factual stuff and so when I come home it is U.K t.v I watch.

I thought I'd integrate better trying to watch it and it would help me learn French but I simply found it dull and hard work trying to concentrate when I should have been relaxing.

You will find though, most professionals like accountants and doctors can speak English but simply are too ashamed of making schoolboy errors to try.

Edited May 31, 2013 by Ty Korrigan
Spellin...

[Ty Korrigan]

To add concerning UK pension contributions whilst over seas.

I have just asked for a Pensions forecast as I have 21years paid up and wish to continue paying into as a 'precaution'

You need 35 years for a full pension and 44 for certain death benefits although I don't know what they are!

In conversation with the pensions people it seems I may be able to pay class 2 contributions as a self employed person whilst overseas which is £3 per week rather than the £13 as a non-worker.

I'll keep you all posted.

Regards

[Ty Korrigan]

I just wanted to say that there is a tree surgery business up for sale in the Dordogne region.

The owner is also a member on here.

You may be able to sniff him out yourself or I can direct you via email as I don't want to cross swords with the Mods on advertising.

Still no news from the pensions people...

[Mr Fir]

I'm looking to move to Angers, Maine et Loire, next year and find employment - not interested in running a business again! My partner is French so I have learned the language over several years (though still need to learn more). I've a couple years experience since an ND at college, suite of NPTCs and extras.

 

So i'm wondering what are the essentials (i'll speak to la mairie too)?

Training certs carry over or likely required to do theirs?

Know of any decent national companies or ones to avoid?

 

Sounds a bit tricky but i'm sure the rewards will be worth it

[Ty Korrigan]

Hello,

If your interested in having a try out of French living we could perhaps short term accommodate you locally and find you enough work to whet your appetite.

A try out, bus mans extended holiday, tech us a few things too.

Regards

[Mr Fir]

Thanks for the offer Ty, i'll get in touch when I know i'm heading over then. First arborist I worked with was an englishman near Guemene-sur-Scorff. Where abouts are you? Plenty work on?