Biodiversity Planting Formula

[HCR]

Allah be praised, knowledge and intelligence.

There is hope

 

Not for you there isn't sunshine.

[daltontrees]

C'mon guys, season of goodwill an all that! Now what was the question?

[Gary Prentice]

Fair point, and my choice of words wasn't ideal. It wasn't the pathogen itself that was different, but the scale and nature of its impact.

 

Wych elm is indeed susceptible (indeed in one way more so than Ulmus procera) but the reason that pretty much every U procera succumbed (and yes, I know there is the intact population in Brighton) is that they were all genetically identical, all clones of a single original tree.

 

U procera can never develop resistance to Ophiostoma novo-ulmi because it cannot evolve. It can only reproduce clonally so any offspring will have all the same susceptibilities as the parent.

 

This is why Venturia became so damaging to our Manchester Poplar, all clones from one nursery in Blackley.

 

I wasn't aware that Brighton had managed to retain any Elms. I know that they were one of the few areas to implement a sanitation felling policy. Have they survived due to a natural immunity or repeated fungicidal injections?

 

Should have searched before posting question

 

 

Elm Disease - Brighton & Hove City Council

Edited December 26, 2012 by Gary Prentice

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

There's no magic species mix that works universally. Assuming you're talking woodland, there are 25 recognised types, many with up to 5 sub-types, each being the most appropriate mix for a given set of conditions.

 

Get hold of British Plant Communities Volume 1 (Edited by JS Rodwell) to get a good feel for how it all works.

 

This is good advice, I would add.

 

Consider looking around localy to get a feel for the natural species diversity, and what grows well, like ask yourself what species thrive in neglected spots localy. planning for biodiversity is really about copying the natural succession of species and not trying to establish the peak species balance but starting off the cycle in a way that initiates the cycle.

 

For instance, my local brown field sites start with Budleja birch hawthorn and goat willows, along with certain herbaceous perennials like foxgloves, willow herb etc etc. So think about this logically within your locality and stimulate this pattern.

 

Hope this was usefull.

[daltontrees]

From an Americal website

"Frank Santamour of the United States Arboretum, without taking ownership, described in 1990 the 10-20-30 formula to develop a diverse tree population within a community or landscape. The rule-of-thumb is straightforward and is as follows:

 

Plant

•no more than 10% of any species,

•no more than 20% of any genus,

•no more than 30% of any family."

 

This seems to be referred to generally as the 10-20-30 rule, but it is not so much a rule as a aparently a convention that has arisen from consensus. It would be nice (in answer to the riginal question) to be able to call it "Santamour's Rule" but as shown in the article that someone attached earlier in this thread it is not his but rather he has given it a degree of authority by testing then endorsing it.

If I ever need a short title for it I think I will go with "10-20-30 formula".

[Gary Prentice]

Tony, I don't know where you're based, but your pioneering species are the same here, although Hawthorn is to a lesser degree. Maybe they do well in the urban soil environment. I have noticed that buddlia (sp?) are becoming far more dominant around manchester, springing up in every nook and cranny. My interest/thoughts are along the lines that, with a continueing introduction of pathogens that our trees have not evolved with, what's going to happen in the future. I'm assuming this is occuring nationwide, but the numbers of trees in decline here is becoming staggering.

 

Jules, yes, Treeseer's post was the answer I was seeking, although I seem to recollect what I had originally read was named after someone. Now all we have to do is spread the word

[treeseer]

... I seem to recollect what I had originally read was named after someone. Now all we have to do is spread the word

Yes that and broaden our definitions and paradigms. such as Biodiversity Planting Formula. the whole native/exotic thing is quite a blur.

 

that and be nicer to each other; we are too few for fratricide.

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

From an Americal website

"Frank Santamour of the United States Arboretum, without taking ownership, described in 1990 the 10-20-30 formula to develop a diverse tree population within a community or landscape. The rule-of-thumb is straightforward and is as follows:

 

Plant

•no more than 10% of any species,

•no more than 20% of any genus,

•no more than 30% of any family."

 

This seems to be referred to generally as the 10-20-30 rule, but it is not so much a rule as a aparently a convention that has arisen from consensus. It would be nice (in answer to the riginal question) to be able to call it "Santamour's Rule" but as shown in the article that someone attached earlier in this thread it is not his but rather he has given it a degree of authority by testing then endorsing it.

If I ever need a short title for it I think I will go with "10-20-30 formula".

 

 

This is a very intereting avenue of thought, going along the lines of universal laws. I will look into this a little more indepth and see if it is in sychronious harmony wth current earthly resonances. by that I mean there are laws that govern things beyond our mental and visual perspectives, this 10-20-30 phenomina may be inspired if unkowingly by such rules, for examples of such laws see the Fibonacci index, sacred geometry etc.

 

I am VERY sympathetic to such maths, they are a key of fundamental importance and have been in all human histories. They have periodically changed in history in line with the changes to planetary movements but essentially the core math is Fibonacci's, or rather he was one of its discoverers, as many no doubt found the law in history:001_cool:

 

The life and numbers of Fibonacci | plus.maths.org

 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rx31y1KKK3E]Sacred Geometry Explained Part 1 of 2 - YouTube[/ame]

 

 

Tony, I don't know where you're based, but your pioneering species are the same here, although Hawthorn is to a lesser degree. Maybe they do well in the urban soil environment. I have noticed that buddlia (sp?) are becoming far more dominant around manchester, springing up in every nook and cranny. My interest/thoughts are along the lines that, with a continueing introduction of pathogens that our trees have not evolved with, what's going to happen in the future. I'm assuming this is occuring nationwide, but the numbers of trees in decline here is becoming staggering.

 

Jules, yes, Treeseer's post was the answer I was seeking, although I seem to recollect what I had originally read was named after someone. Now all we have to do is spread the word

 

I am based in Watford, Hertfordshire, tree declines are to be expected, were messing around with stocks, importation of strains and even worse genetic manipulations, the old ancients seem to fair far better. So in my mind, the declines are a reflection of our lack of understanding and arrogance with regard to natural law, and we had better start listening to natures laws before we go too far up the proverbial creek and lose the paddles!

[woodyguy]

Thanks for clarifying that. Interesting idea whether it is better to be able to evolve or lie low regrowing from your root system and getting top growth killed every 20 years, waiting for the vector to disappear.

 

I suppose as there have been several out breaks of DED over the millennia and yet until recently Elms were a very prominent part of our landscape, not evolving is pretty successful. We are simply judging them at an historic low point of their life cycle.

 

Certainly seeing the majestic Elms in Brighton is a fine sight and brings back to mind the huge East Anglian elm colonies. But when you see the efforts they have had to make to sustain them, you can understand why so many other local authorities abandoned the fight.

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

Thanks for clarifying that. Interesting idea whether it is better to be able to evolve or lie low regrowing from your root system and getting top growth killed every 20 years, waiting for the vector to disappear.

 

I suppose as there have been several out breaks of DED over the millennia and yet until recently Elms were a very prominent part of our landscape, not evolving is pretty successful. We are simply judging them at an historic low point of their life cycle.

 

Certainly seeing the majestic Elms in Brighton is a fine sight and brings back to mind the huge East Anglian elm colonies. But when you see the efforts they have had to make to sustain them, you can understand why so many other local authorities abandoned the fight.

 

Its funny, we have a line of young elms that have gotten way past the normal diameter, almost 14-18'' DBH now in Chesham Bucks and I know of two of about 2 foot DBH in the colne valley so things may be on:thumbup1: the up.

 

Ecological time always sorts things out in the end, we tend to get a little over stressed about changes