SRT ReTraverse

[dgcunningham]

Hey bro, if your hitch fails on either srt or drt- your buggered! A question about why you wouldn't be allows to work from it- how come? Both systems- one rope,one hitch.

 

Well to be completely honest I don't know the answer to that question, but I'll have a go at expressing my reservations on this one. Before tree work I worked a lot with cranes on the railway over here. During my training on that we were taught a fair bit on British legislation (basically how to cover your ass when it hits the fan, which it did often). What's applicable here is that British statute law is pretty basic, there's not much to it really. But what we do have is a lot of precidents, that's basiclly cases which have happened before and judges have made decisions.

 

Anyway, I don't fully know what statute law says about our work but I expect it says we must be deemed competent through training (PUWER, LOLER- both are Regs, that means parliament was involved, that means law). I don't know any training courses which deal with SRT in our industry. Lets say I start using an SRT system in work after watching a few You-Tube films and I take a fall from it and get injured/killed. There would be a HSE legal investigation takes place and my employer (he has a care of duty) is placed in the dock.

 

Ok so lets say my employer is found guilty of negligence because we are not trained, after being found guilty, sentencing then refers to Codes of Practice, these are the recommendations from the industry leaders (Normally big firms with a long history). If the guilty party is found guilty and of not following best industry practice as set out in the COP, my understanding is that the judge throws the book at you, then picks it back up and throws it again.

 

If my understanding is correct and it may not be, I hold my hands up, i'm not legally trained, but if this is the case, I can understand from an employers perspective, not introducing SRT.

 

Don't get me wrong, i'd love to try it, it does look great.

 

Just again I want to emphasise that I might be way off with this, I'm just trying to look at things within an employment context.

 

[RobArb]

Hi Rob, yeah we're good mate, shame about this weather though aint it? I've succumbed to a cold and been feeling weak as a kitten: been hard work hauling myself up those trees the last few days. You well mate? How is the study going, have you finished it yet? Mozza is off for his wedding so he's being sorely missed. No sign of SRT for us mate, but to be honest all the bigger trees we have worked of late have been dismantles so been scampering about mostly on spikes. Had a week in the lakes the other week and took a static kernmantle line, jummar, croll and pantin and had a go of that, pretty impressed by it. Felt like a proper caver!

 

Take care man.

 

D

 

I've got till next may then I'm done:thumbup: at the moment its goin alright, just keep on, keeping on:biggrin: still no SRT here yet either but can't see the council subscribing to it:001_rolleyes:

 

Miss Phil's safety "talks"in a morning too:lol:, liked working with you guys was just a bit too far though, I'm sure our paths will again

 

Stay safe dude:thumbup1:

 

Sent from my Galaxy S2

[dgcunningham]

I've got till next may then I'm done:thumbup: at the moment its goin alright, just keep on, keeping on:biggrin: still no SRT here yet either but can't see the council subscribing to it:001_rolleyes:

 

Miss Phil's safety "talks"in a morning too:lol:, liked working with you guys was just a bit too far though, I'm sure our paths will again

 

Stay safe dude:thumbup1:

 

Sent from my Galaxy S2

 

Great skills with the study mate! The end is in sight, i'm sure your doing great at it, your id skills are top notch man, i'm sure everything else is following the same route. Like you said, just got to keep keeping on with it.

 

In Phil's defence he is just trying to create a culture of safety, must be hard trying reign in a group of climbers who just want to get up the tree and there's always going to be an element of competition amongst us. He's just trying to push the team work side. Perfect practice makes perfect i guess.

 

Did you see that article in the guardian's money section on the Tree Station? Amazing publicity, great photo of me, Mozza and Ste! I told Felicity i'm the modern face of arboriculture- she didn't believe a word!!!!

 

Good to hear from you, good luck with the remaining study.

[DrewB]

yes i guess im lucky to be living in a country where if you make a mistake its your fault, not the employers. I think its a silly arguement tbh, i trained on a blakes hitch-no one "trained" me on a vt, nor a spiderjack/lockjack. But no one complaind about these in the industry. But i totally see your point bro, not arguing.

[dgcunningham]

yes i guess im lucky to be living in a country where if you make a mistake its your fault, not the employers. I think its a silly arguement tbh, i trained on a blakes hitch-no one "trained" me on a vt, nor a spiderjack/lockjack. But no one complaind about these in the industry. But i totally see your point bro, not arguing.

 

Yep I see your point Drew and I do agree with it and i'm probably looking at this too much really. Like you said about the blakes hitch and that being the principle means of training, whilst a large number of guys work on hitch climbers and VT's. This is probably a reason why the treevolution guys are producing complete systems which have CE marks etc. I suppose the bigger difference is the movement from DRT to SRT? Also, i'm looking at this from an employer/employee perspective, which might be slightly different from a contractor and sub-contractor perspective. If a sub-contractor has their own insurances, certificates of inspection etc maybe it's not an issue.

 

Can I ask you a little question, I believe you do a lot of splicing? Is the ruling on splicing the same as what you said in that if you make a mistake you are at fault? I think over here if you splice a rope you effectivley become the manufacturer of that rope and if the rope fails you are solely resposible (that's the splicer regardless of the nature of the failure).

[DrewB]

Constant testing is done to prove that the splices will not fail. How do you expect a splice to fail?? Not really get the point your making sorry bro

[browncow]

Splicing is a funny one hey bro. I am happy to splice ropes for people having break tested my splices and being confident that the splices I do are done according to the rope manufactures recomendations. However - I wont splice eye to eye friction cords for peeps as I am always worried that they will hang on the the friction hitch way past its use by date simply because they can't splice a new one themselves and may like the neatness of the splice over a knot.

 

I use knots on mine anyway as I don't like the stiffness of the hitch when spliced and i am sure I have no liability for this anyway but it still worries me enough not to do it.

[DrewB]

congrats on the good news to bro!

[browncow]

congrats on the good news to bro!

 

Cheers brother

[dgcunningham]

Constant testing is done to prove that the splices will not fail. How do you expect a splice to fail?? Not really get the point your making sorry bro

 

Sorry Drew, think I must have written that in a misleading way. I didn't suggest that the splice as such would fail, I think I wrote if the rope failed in any way, not the splice. It's just my understanding that if you potentially splice a rope you effectively become the manufacturer of that rope. In a way it seems like breaking the security seal on a guarenteed product, guarentee void.

 

I was only asking because it seemed like a really big responsibility to take on board, that's all. Maybe it's not. But hey, that's the function of forums- conversation and sharing thoughts and concerns.

 

Cheers for taking the time to converse.