RPA Query

[blimeyocrisis]

Apologies in advance for this rambling post, but please bear with me - first post and all. I'd also like to say that since I started considering a planning application in a small amount of woodland we own in our garden this site has provided some excellent info...

 

On with the ramble then... As above, I have recently submitted a planning application for a house (for me and my family to live in more sustainably rather than simple development profit i'd like to add...).

 

Prior to the application we felled 3 trees that would likely have been served with TPO's had we not done that, which would then have put paid to the whole thing. So whilst not particularly proud of that point we felt it a necessity personally to ensure that our application could move forward. Note that now our application is in we have been served with an emergency TPO (area order) that I'm partially appealing as we do want to retain as many trees as possible & will include a re-planting scheme both for amenity value and screening in yrs to come. However there remains 1 tree that ideally needs to come down & could cause us a problem if it doesn't. I'm arguing that it is in a dangerous condition. The tree has also been noted by our local TO that served the TPO as showing signs of decay, a point which has been backed up by an arboriculturist who came to price up a quote for a BS5837 survey.

 

The reason why this tree is in a dangerous state is not particularly the decay mentioned above, but that it sits on the bottom of a slope with a lot of the bottom side of its root system now exposed. This has presumably been caused by yrs of rainfall coming down the slope from the woods above & washing the soil away. So the tree is effectively sat with a lot of its root system out of the ground and if it falls it will only fall one way, into the neighbours house. That same neighbour despite being wary of this tree for the past few yrs & expressing their concerns to us, as owners of the tree, has now objected to our plans on several grounds, one of them being that they don't feel that the tree in question needs felling and it may just benefit from being reduced and thinned, weight off etc... My belief is that they believe that retaining it will effectively scupper any access to the planned site & therefore trash our application, which it quite possibly will...

 

Anyway, to finally get to the point... If this tree has to be retained/thinned etc. instead of them allowing us to fell it, then would it be feasible to build our access drive adjacent to the tree by means of building the soil back up around the exposed roots and then providing a cell confinement system as part of the driveway system. The far side of that built up driveway would be supported by 1-2 layers of gabions, which I believe are acceptable to use within RPA as they don't need a substantial foundation system...

 

Hope all that makes sense...

[Jesse]

Apologies in advance for this rambling post, but please bear with me - first post and all. I'd also like to say that since I started considering a planning application in a small amount of woodland we own in our garden this site has provided some excellent info...

 

On with the ramble then... As above, I have recently submitted a planning application for a house (for me and my family to live in more sustainably rather than simple development profit i'd like to add...).

 

Prior to the application we felled 3 trees that would likely have been served with TPO's had we not done that, which would then have put paid to the whole thing. So whilst not particularly proud of that point we felt it a necessity personally to ensure that our application could move forward. Note that now our application is in we have been served with an emergency TPO (area order) that I'm partially appealing as we do want to retain as many trees as possible & will include a re-planting scheme both for amenity value and screening in yrs to come. However there remains 1 tree that ideally needs to come down & could cause us a problem if it doesn't. I'm arguing that it is in a dangerous condition. The tree has also been noted by our local TO that served the TPO as showing signs of decay, a point which has been backed up by an arboriculturist who came to price up a quote for a BS5837 survey.

 

The reason why this tree is in a dangerous state is not particularly the decay mentioned above, but that it sits on the bottom of a slope with a lot of the bottom side of its root system now exposed. This has presumably been caused by yrs of rainfall coming down the slope from the woods above & washing the soil away. So the tree is effectively sat with a lot of its root system out of the ground and if it falls it will only fall one way, into the neighbours house. That same neighbour despite being wary of this tree for the past few yrs & expressing their concerns to us, as owners of the tree, has now objected to our plans on several grounds, one of them being that they don't feel that the tree in question needs felling and it may just benefit from being reduced and thinned, weight off etc... My belief is that they believe that retaining it will effectively scupper any access to the planned site & therefore trash our application, which it quite possibly will...

 

Anyway, to finally get to the point... If this tree has to be retained/thinned etc. instead of them allowing us to fell it, then would it be feasible to build our access drive adjacent to the tree by means of building the soil back up around the exposed roots and then providing a cell confinement system as part of the driveway system. The far side of that built up driveway would be supported by 1-2 layers of gabions, which I believe are acceptable to use within RPA as they don't need a substantial foundation system...

 

Hope all that makes sense...

Great post and it is going to be complex for you, first you need to find out who your LPA favor regarding tree surveying and BS5837, then take them on, forget about fees and cost cutting as up to now in cutting corners and going for the cheapest contractor you may have cut your nose off to spite your face, what you are proposing within the RPA of this tree is not acceptable within 5837 recommendations, forget the condition of the tree or trees this is in effect a blanket order , any poor tree can still be protected the order really just ensures that any tree losses will be replaced , in the same place, to stop you building , any ground level alterations within the RPA of a tree will have to be agreed with the LPA. There are bespoke designs which could be specified for this situation but depending on how much you have aggravated your LPA will dictate the successes of your application, hope that helps, it is late, sorry for any poor spellings I have had a glass or two of red wine, but I do know my stuff:thumbup1:

[blimeyocrisis]

Thanks for the reply Jesse and also the tip as regards the LPA's known surveyors. I've dropped a note to the tree officer not for a recommendation but to discuss local organisations they've dealt with in the past. Obviously in the hope that the TO will point me towards one they're familiar and happy with...

[Paul Jenks]

Also, the updated 5837 says that no more than 20% of the RPA is to be under hard standing, even no-dig cellweb. The basic premis is, as Jesse wrote, that the TPO is there to ensure the overall number of trees is maintened, so some trees can be removed, if justified and replaced and the TO agrees. With the BS if a tree is to be retained every effort should be made to ensure its longevity, hence all the protection measures. If you can show that the overall tree cover will increase and the retained trees' root zones will be improved, (aeration, de-compaction etc), as a result of development then the TO may be minded to look favourably on your project.

[Jesse]

Thanks for the reply Jesse and also the tip as regards the LPA's known surveyors. I've dropped a note to the tree officer not for a recommendation but to discuss local organisations they've dealt with in the past. Obviously in the hope that the TO will point me towards one they're familiar and happy with...

 

One last thing for you to think about, Revoking the area order (TPO) This can sometimes be done, I put together a very detailed 10 year woodland management plan together for a very distressed client and got the area order lifted . A very good book for you to buy and digest is ' Tree Preservation Orders, A guide to the Law and Good Practice' read it all but most importantly become an expert on Chapter 4 Varying and Revoking Tree Preservation Orders, just to give you an idea of costs I did it a few years ago and charged the client around £1500 it was very detailed and ticked every box, my client was over the moon as he was the able to sell his house and wood as up until that point he could not find any one to buy it.

[blimeyocrisis]

Thanks to all the responses on here. I've had the 5837 survey done and i'm awaiting the report.

 

I've also asked their opinion on this as well. Ideally the tree in question will be able to be removed if my re-planting scheme is accepted.

 

Anyway, just wanted to thank the folks that took the time to reply, your advice was appreciated & heeded...

[Tom2020]

One last thing for you to think about, Revoking the area order (TPO) This can sometimes be done, I put together a very detailed 10 year woodland management plan together for a very distressed client and got the area order lifted . A very good book for you to buy and digest is ' Tree Preservation Orders, A guide to the Law and Good Practice' read it all but most importantly become an expert on Chapter 4 Varying and Revoking Tree Preservation Orders, just to give you an idea of costs I did it a few years ago and charged the client around £1500 it was very detailed and ticked every box, my client was over the moon as he was the able to sell his house and wood as up until that point he could not find any one to buy it.

 

Tree Preservation Orders: A Guide to the Law and Good Practice - Planning, building and the environment - Department for Communities and Local Government

 

Should Help

[ging]

i know not of this planning regulation type stuff, but maybe gettin some new trees in the ground now, or building a nursery bed that you can start to plant out seed from existing trees ready to fulfil the replanting scheme.... just a thought

[McMichael]

Can someone shed some light... I have worked at a premises which had stumps with TPO's on them, it is likely the case that they were trees when the order was served. My question is... Now that the area has been hit with a blanket TPO will this automatically also cover the stumps which unless ground out may infact regenerate depending on the species?

Edited August 10, 2012 by McMichael

[blimeyocrisis]

Trying to keep this thread going...

 

Does anyone have any decent info on tree root systems in steep slopes? Thinking that some trees that would need to be retained are rooted into this slope and my logical thought process is that the root system would head back into the slope as it's natural route to flat ground isn't there? Unless of course the root system can head down at a 45deg angle or more? Hope that makes sense...

 

If my logic is correct would this point be arguable with the TO in that the RPA on the 'bottom' side of the trees would actually be less than the crown spread?

 

Or am I just clutching at straws???