what do make where you are?

[Daniël Bos]

Thats a really good point!!! While you are in the pub, whatever he does on site is YOUR responsiblity, thats the point I'm making, these people are employed by you, they are nto sub contractors doing a seperate contract for you as part of a larger contract the main client.

 

So, you are in charge, if you want to go to the pub then fine but you are still in charge.

 

I can see him work from the pub:thumbup1:

 

So when does he become a sub then?

Surely if I told him what needs doing, he agrees to do it for amount X (his day-rate) and invoices me when the job is done we have a (verbal) contract?

[Rupe]

If the fencing is for the farm then surely you would be the contractor up to the point of borrowing equipment?

 

Thats a about right. YOur just the fencing contractor in that case, if you have given them a price for the fencing. If you are on day rate then its a bit more muddled, you could be seen as an employee (yes, even if self employed) but if workign on a farm then its not quite the same as their is no client as such, so no main contract and therefore not really any sub contract.

[felixthelogchopper]

Thats a about right. YOur just the fencing contractor in that case, if you have given them a price for the fencing. If you are on day rate then its a bit more muddled, you could be seen as an employee (yes, even if self employed) but if workign on a farm then its not quite the same as their is no client as such, so no main contract and therefore not really any sub contract.

 

Would the client not be the legal entity, whether individual or company, who owns the farm and ordered the fencing?

[Rupe]

I can see him work from the pub:thumbup1:

 

So when does he become a sub then?

Surely if I told him what needs doing, he agrees to do it for amount X (his day-rate) and invoices me when the job is done we have a (verbal) contract?

 

There is no such thing as a "sub" hes working for you.

 

If I take on a tree job and there is fencing to be done as well, and I know nothing about fencing then I could get a self employed fencer to give me a price for the job (he can use my cement mixer if it makes it cheaper) and once agreed he can then carry out that work in his own time for the fixed amount, and in that instance he could be called a sub contractor. i.e. I have sub contracted out the fencing part of the job.

 

But hiring in a groundie to work with me or a climber hired in by me, even if they agree that the job in hand is doable in a day for their agreed rate, does not make them sub contractors. If I got a tree job and got another company to give me a price to do it (they could even borrow my chipper) and then I left them to it then that company would be sub contracting the job from me, but they would then need their own insurance.

[Rupe]

Would the client not be the legal entity, whether individual or company, who owns the farm and ordered the fencing?

 

 

Yes, thats sort of what I meant, there is no further client, just the farm, so you are working directly either employed or as a contractor but not a sub contractor because there is no "further" client beyond the farm, if that makes sense.

[felixthelogchopper]

Yes, thats sort of what I meant, there is no further client, just the farm, so you are working directly either employed or as a contractor but not a sub contractor because there is no "further" client beyond the farm, if that makes sense.

 

Ah right, I think I misunderstood your point

[Rupe]

I misunderstand most of my points too!

[felixthelogchopper]

I misunderstand most of my points too!