BS 5837 objectivity?

[sloth]

It's supposed to be objective, but can it really be so?

The developer is paying you, if you want more work, you try to make things work in their favour. Suggesting removal of good trees which could be worked around simply; but they don't want that, they want ease, and a driveway!

Work in an rpa? You spec arb supervision during works, but do you get someone else to supervise, or do it yourself? If you do it yourself, will you report to the lpa, or keep quiet when a couple of too big roots get damaged? What would they do, would they care, would you lose custom?

I'm just thinking aloud (in text) and don't really know where I'm going with this, but do you think this standard provides the level of protection to trees which it should? Should an arb be appointed by the lpa, but paid for by the developer, to allow a more unbiased view?

[Paul Jenks]

It's a very valid point, Sloth.

Retaining objectivity is a challenge especially when there is a chance of getting work from it.

If you can change your thinking to focus on your professional integrity this may help. Wording can change the nuance of a statement to soften its impact though it should always be factual and unemotive.

The mantra espoused by so many today is to ensure your backside is covered. Trees are afforded protection if they are to be retained so the job of the arboriculturalist is to demonstrate that the developer has all the relevent information to so do.

If they, the developer, choose to ignore this information is for the LA and said developer to debate.

It's all fine and dandy being the pet of a developer and getting plenty of work but if the proverbial hits the fan they will drop you in it to cover their backside.

[Paul Barton]

With regards to site supervision, I try to explain to clients that this service is not to 'police' the site on behalf of the LA but it is to ensure compliance with planning conditions.

 

By being on site and documenting/photographing the process, you are providing evidence of compliance. Then submit this evidence to the client and they can show to the LA if requested.

 

That said, I make it very clear that I will record whatever I see on site - good or bad! If something goes wrong it is recorded, but so is the advice I give to fix it. If the advice is then followed this is also documented to show the developer complied...

 

I have only walked away from one site so far and I have no regrets. Having written the AIA and detailed AMS, the client decided to disregard it all. I was then called in for site supervision - the first visit identified some minor problems so I gave advice and asked to be called back when groundworks near a TPO'd tree were to commence. The next call I got from the developer was to come and inspect trenches dug well within the RPA of said tree - I was horrified to discover the scene when I arrived. They wanted me to write a report saying what they had done was ok and that no major roots had been damaged. At that point I sent them an invoice for the work done so far and walked away as I felt that our client relationship was worthless!

[Callum]

Hi Sloth

 

You have to maintain professional integrity and in the long term the relationship you develop with the LPA is just as important as the one with your clients.

 

If you loose credibility with the LPA then every report you then submit will be questioned and doubted which then causes clients problems.

 

I don't think I'm there to tell the client what they can and can't do. I just let them know what options there are and what implications any plans will have on the trees. It's up to them to way these options up and decide whether the LPA will go for them.

 

As far a supervision, I report back to the client and copy the tree officer in to any emails regarding the trees. This is made clear in the supervision method statement so the client is aware of this before anything happens.

 

Often the client will be using subcontractors on the site so they may be unaware of what is going on day to day and not all damage to trees is deliberate. Having the arb consultant on their back inspecting everything regularly can speed up the build because they have less meetings and problems with the LPA.

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

great thread sloth, good point well made and some interesting responses coming in.

 

 

I hope this turns into a long one.

[steve.m]

Personally I am very blunt with my clients and tell them how it is going to be rather than what they want it to be if they dont like it I remind them that if they had paid me to conduct a pre purchase survey, that would only have cost a few hundred, I would have flagged these issues up and they could then either negotiate a better land price on this information or leave well alone.

 

The best example I had of this is a very well know developer bought some land for £5Mill and was hoping for 100+ houses and then I told them the bad news after they paid that the whole site was A TPO LOL!!!!

 

Also there is no being lenient due to the LPA, or most LPA's, being hot on these issues and basically getting what they want which is a good thing.

 

ultimately its about protecting trees as much as possible the loss of a few roots carefully and intentionally pruned is not as bad as a digger ripping them apart.

 

I also try to educate my clients to the fact that trees are nice and will increase the value of their development and more than pay for my services as well as making the LPA like them so in the long term win win

 

If all else fails I tell the client the tree officer is complete and utter tree hugger and you have not got a hope in hells chance of removing that lovely Oak so redesign your layout and fire your landbuyer!!!!

 

God I love my job it's such good fun

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

Personally I am very blunt with my clients and tell them how it is going to be rather than what they want it to be if they dont like it I remind them that if they had paid me to conduct a pre purchase survey, that would only have cost a few hundred, I would have flagged these issues up and they could then either negotiate a better land price on this information or leave well alone.

 

The best example I had of this is a very well know developer bought some land for £5Mill and was hoping for 100+ houses and then I told them the bad news after they paid that the whole site was A TPO LOL!!!!

 

Also there is no being lenient due to the LPA, or most LPA's, being hot on these issues and basically getting what they want which is a good thing.

 

ultimately its about protecting trees as much as possible the loss of a few roots carefully and intentionally pruned is not as bad as a digger ripping them apart.

 

I also try to educate my clients to the fact that trees are nice and will increase the value of their development and more than pay for my services as well as making the LPA like them so in the long term win win

 

If all else fails I tell the client the tree officer is complete and utter tree hugger and you have not got a hope in hells chance of removing that lovely Oak so redesign your layout and fire your landbuyer!!!!

 

God I love my job it's such good fun

 

its amazing that the bigger developers havent got wise and got an arb on there land acquisition:001_rolleyes: teams!

[steve.m]

its amazing that the bigger developers havent got wise and got an arb on there land acquisition:001_rolleyes: teams!

You would think

[JonnyVine]

Personaly I find it difficult to believe that someone spending £5M has overlooked a blanket TPO?

[steve.m]

Personaly I find it difficult to believe that someone spending £5M has overlooked a blanket TPO?

Yes it does seem unbelievable but this was in the time of boom and the land buyers would get commission so they bought any old land no checks nothing. You would be surprised at how many times I have seen this and no doubt it will happen many times more.

 

It still shocks me to this day that so many developers ignore the trees/ TPO issues and that is why I and no doubt others are called up at the last minute so many times to get them out of the hole they have dug for themselves.

 

Education is the best way and being whacked in the wallet also helps, company in question now has me doing a pre purchase survey everytime they buy land!!!