extracting timber on a steep slope

[oakashalder]

Hi,

 

I'm not a professional arborist, I'm thinking of buying a tract of woodland in Wales and wondering how well it might hold its value. It seems to me the value depends on some owner, at some time, being able to extract and sell the wood, and folk here will probably be able to say something about that.

 

It's a 10 acre site on a very steep slope --a climb, not walkable. It's narrow, with a central track, the slopes varying from, say, 40 to 70 yards either side of the track. The trees on it are norway spruce and red cedar in a range of sizes. I estimate the largest to be around 20 metres tall, half a meter in diameter, but that's an uneducated guess. The track is in good order, with turning/storage bays.

 

The questions in my mind are:

is the terrain likely to make it more expensive to fell and extract the timber than the timber would ever be worth?

How is the value of such trees estimated, and by who?

Part of the slope runs alongside an A road, so would a felling licence even be granted, given the possibility of landslip, etc?

 

Some here, from their experience, may think of other issues.

 

I wouldn't actually want to cut any trees, apart from just maintenance. I mostly want to get a sense of whether I could re-sell it at a later date as a viable concern. Any opinions and feedback welcomed.

[John Hughes]

Ten acres of timber on a steep slope will not haves great value. The value of small woodland lies in their amenity value.

We own woodlands in Wales and I would say if you have a choice don't buy one on a steep slope. You have to be super fit to be able to enjoy walking around them.

Where abouts are you thinking of buying ?

In the long term the value of land will rise as they no longer make it!

John

[oakashalder]

Ten acres of timber on a steep slope will not haves great value. The value of small woodland lies in their amenity value.

We own woodlands in Wales and I would say if you have a choice don't buy one on a steep slope. You have to be super fit to be able to enjoy walking around them.

Where abouts are you thinking of buying ?

In the long term the value of land will rise as they no longer make it!

John

 

Thank you for your reply.

 

I am in south west Wales, not too far from Cardigan, so I've been looking in this area. There are a couple of companies specialising in the sale of small woodlands and this is one of theirs.

 

I take your point about the lack of amenity in a steep slope, though the maintenance would be light as there's no undergrowth whatever --just tree!

 

I have visited a couple of other sites on more level ground and they have looked like a lot of work to renovate and maintain. None of them had any degree of canopy at all, and all had a lot of scrubby growth. I understand we're supposed to call that "natural regeneration", but pretty impenetrable as far as amenity goes.

 

Resale value is my primary concern, though the allowance for firewood would be useful, and at age 65 I don't know how much 'long-term' I can take into account. I'd like to hear more about your experience as regards looking for- and looking after- small woodland. Not too far off-topic in ARB I hope.

[Joy Yeomans]

steep slope extraction any thing from £16 to £26 a tonne just to skyline the timber down to the forwarding area, hand cutters will want about £120 a day and will cut about 15-20t depending on going and size of timbers, a harvestor or bed processor to sit at the bottom of the skyline to cut timber to size and brash up about £250+ a day, a forwarder to move it to stacking point about £200+ a day

 

timber value - sitka and pines did you say about zero or into negative values after all that , unless youve got a grant or loads of clearfell to warrant the costs

 

10 acres isnt alot for costs of setup etc

just my opinion

joy

Edited July 2, 2011 by Joy Yeomans
add

[pgkevet]

Hi,

 

I'm not a professional arborist, I'm thinking of buying a tract of woodland in Wales and wondering how well it might hold its value. It seems to me the value depends on some owner, at some time, being able to extract and sell the wood, and folk here will probably be able to say something about that.

 

I'm not an arborist either but some similarities with your situation..I'm 61 and in the process of buying a small farm in Wales with a couple of chunks of woodland.. the main part running along one edge of my property and on a steepish slope..ya gets a good pant going going up there.. although it levels along the road.

 

It has a value. Let's face it it's on the market:001_smile: Folk buy such things for different reasons..either simply to say they own a wood, to make something of it as an amenity and hire out it's use, the timber and so on.

 

Your ten acres or my eight odd acres is unlikely to be commercial unless you had valuable timber types there. I'm buying mine partly because it's part of the larger and very beautiful land and farm buildings and partly for the simple reason that my wife wants to own a wood.

 

Any timber I take out will be for the woodburners and likely it's going to cost as much or more to manage it than I get out of it as a piece of woodland.

 

The point already made is that land is finite. Keep it long enough and it will increase in value unless someone builds a nuclear power plant next door but don't buy it as a short term investment..buy it because you like it!

 

If I have the energy then one day I'm going to make simple stepped paths through it..a couple of pegs to hold a timber and fill the void with soil..just to make it easier to walk through. If it was a commercial exercise then walks like that with a midway pitstop can be popular..but the last thing I want is to start running a new business:001_smile:

 

Or you shed your clothes, dress in goat skins, build a hidden cabin into the hillside, live off the land and don't tell the government where you are...

[oakashalder]

10 acres isnt alot for costs of setup etc

just my opinion

joy

 

Which is what I wanted, thanks.

 

The configuration of the site --very long and narrow-- wouldn't warrant some of that heavy equipment, and the timber was spruce and red cedar, but I'm sure you're right about it not being economic.

[slack ma girdle]

This came up not so long ago, this thread : http://arbtalk.co.uk/forum/large-equipment/10933-suggestion-timber-forwarding-steep-slope.html generated some useful ideas.

 

I am only 3/4 of an hour from you, and can probably offer some unhelpful/helpful info if you want.

[oakashalder]

Or you shed your clothes, dress in goat skins, build a hidden cabin into the hillside, live off the land and don't tell the government where you are...

 

Odd how appealing that idea is!

 

I probably shouldn't have used the word "investment". It's not that I want to make money from it, only that it hold its value against the need to one day sell it again, not having pensions and things like that.

 

I do like it. It has a river --well, a stream, but it warrants a name-- at the foot of the slope and I had thought of a stepped path down to it as a way of adding a bit of amenity value. But having very little to play with, I do need to at least try to be a bit hard-headed.

[John Hughes]

It has been 4 years since we bought our woods and I think prices have risen considerably since then. How much per

[John Hughes]

As I was saying!how much per acre is the asking price?

Our woods are near Llandovery , you would be welcome to come and have a chat about woodland ownership if you like.

John