Insurance

[Ian150482]

In the middle of sorting out my insurance, the cheapest i've got is with trust insurance. For just me climbing and no height restriction + 1 metre down for hitting pipes its gonna cost me £630.00 a year. But i do, do alot of subbing and with them insured its £1575.00. I've always paid for them, but what im thinking of now is get them to get there own insurance. Personally i think it'd be a good idea to pay for them so i know there definitly insured. What do you guys think?

 

Its pretty damn cheap too compared to others.

[Andy Collins]

If they are bona fide subcontractors, then they should have their own PLI. You will need Employers Liability. I see no reason why any subbie cant be asked to provide proof of his own PLI, imo its as important as saws and ropes. All companies I've subbed to receive a copy of my PLI as proof that I have it. Why should you pay for it just to ensure they have it? I've even had companies ask for proof that I have paid my taxes and NI, personally I thought that was going too far, but perhaps they are just safe-guarding themselves.

[Ian150482]

The thing that im worried about though, is what alot of people do with there car insurance, take out a direct debit and then mis payment's which makes there insurance now invalid.

[Andy Collins]

See your point, obviously trust is an issue, tho I presume you could pay for the insurance for them, but whats to stop a subby clearing off once you've paid it for them? Depends on the character of the people you use, but as a subby you'd have no legal tie over them, or they should be employed imo.

[Ian150482]

Thinking hard about this, if they got there own insurance and i did get canclled for whatever reason, would that hold me responsable for there actions.

[Andy Collins]

Not sure if I understand you correctly Ian, but as the employer, you are resposible for their actions, while carrying out your work under your direction whether you are on site or not.

Further to my last post, the trust issue is very important, are they likely to solicite your clients for the work? Would they hand out their business cards etc?

This link http://www.theovalgroup.com/main.asp?id=631_2366_39495 may help you understand the s/e subby PLI, tho its not arb-related I think its useful. Basically, to be s/e these days, they have to accept risk, as well as the gains to be made, and their own PLI shows they accept that risk.

[Andy Collins]

"Employed or self-employed?

In order to answer this question it is necessary to determine whether the person works under a contract of service (employees) or under a contract for services (self-employed, independent contractor). For tax and NICs purposes, there is no statutory definition of a contract of service or of a contract for services. What the parties call their relationship, or what they consider it to be, is not conclusive. It is the reality of the relationship that matters.

 

In order to determine the nature of a contract, it is necessary to apply common law principles. The courts have, over the years, laid down some factors and tests that are relevant, which is included in the overview below.

 

As a general guide as to whether a worker is an employee or self-employed; if the answer is 'Yes' to all of the following questions, then the worker is probably an employee:

 

Do they have to do the work themselves?

Can someone tell them at any time what to do, where to carry out the work or when and how to do it?

Can they work a set amount of hours?

Can someone move them from task to task?

Are they paid by the hour, week, or month?

Can they get overtime pay or bonus payment?

If the answer is 'Yes' to all of the following questions, it will usually mean that the worker is self-employed:

 

Can they hire someone to do the work or engage helpers at their own expense?

Do they risk their own money?

Do they provide the main items of equipment they need to do their job, not just the small tools that many employees provide for themselves?

Do they agree to do a job for a fixed price regardless of how long the job may take?

Can they decide what work to do, how and when to do the work and where to provide the services?

Do they regularly work for a number of different people?

Do they have to correct unsatisfactory work in their own time and at their own expense?" from HMRCE.

 

I know its teaching grandma to suck eggs, but this does crop up from time to time.

[Ian150482]

That's helpful. Cheers Andy.

[Andy Collins]

http://www.accountax-ltd.com/AccountaxConsulting/taxstatusassessment_pg2.htm may also be useful to you when deciding.

back to the insurance issue, make it clear that they have to provide PLI, that in the event of you checking it out and they have stopped the installments, you will no longer use them. I dont think its unreasonable to verify that they have current cover, as i said earlier, it is as important and a saw and climbing gear. After all, the insurance is there to protect themselves, and the client, and public. I still find it hard to believe that PLI is NOT a legal requirement.

[Paul Smith]

In the middle of sorting out my insurance, the cheapest i've got is with trust insurance. For just me climbing and no height restriction + 1 metre down for hitting pipes its gonna cost me £630.00 a year. But i do, do alot of subbing and with them insured its £1575.00. I've always paid for them, but what im thinking of now is get them to get there own insurance. Personally i think it'd be a good idea to pay for them so i know there definitly insured. What do you guys think?

 

Its pretty damn cheap too compared to others.

 

You could break down the costs. Your insurance is £630. To insure sub contractors £1575 an extra £945.

 

Divide this by the number of weeks worked to het a weekly cost the divide by number os subies.

 

All you then have to do is deduct the insurance from the sub contractors invoice. Depending on how many subies you have it could be expensive for the subie!