Opinions please on large Beech

[Stephen Blair]

"If you gave this tree a reduction would you 100% guarantee the safety of this tree? Would you put your name on the insurance so if anything did go wrong you got the bill, and maybe even a jail sentence, would you tell the familiy of the elderly owner that they can sleep safe knowing you have given the tree a little trim?"

 

Well with that attitude just remove every single tree. There is likely no tree you can guarantee as 100% safe so lets remove every tree.

 

While we are at it, less get rid of arborist education/training, no need since the answer is always removal since we cannot guarantee anything 100%.

 

I can guarantee 100 percent this tree will not be dangerous once it is removed .

[mrtree]

I can guarantee 100 percent this tree will not be dangerous once it is removed .

 

Really? Will there be a single divot left that somebody might trip on? Will there be a stump that might be a trip hazard or an area of ground out stump that might be uneven? Will the increased sunlight lead to melanoma? Will the increased sunlight lead to growth of barberry or roses that might prick somebody? Yes removing the tree may reduce most risks but perhaps not all.

 

This thread is very interesting and instructive with regards to arborist and tree services and our approach to risk. Without seeing the tree in person and meeting the homeowners we can only speculate but I am willing to bet that tree is not high risk and certainly some maintenance will reduce any risk.

 

If you are going to do removals whenever a tree owner requests there is reduced need for arborists. I know tree services that could not even identify the tree but could remove it quicker than any arborist.

 

If you approach risk in a manner that all risk must be reduced to zero than removal is the only option that you are left with.

 

Any tree can be a risk. Acorns are choking hazards, seedlings are a trip hazard or perhaps a hazard if they poke you in the eye. Larger trees shed leaves and seeds that might be slippery when wet. Big trees might impede a car that has gone off the road. Children might climb and fall out of a tree. Stychnos trees are certainly poisonous if you ingest the fruit, male Alianthus trees are an offensive smelling thing and can cause allergy problems. Trees with defects are at increased risk of breakage.

 

If you want to find a reason for removal you can. I question if arborists are really approaching trees as a resource to be managed or a standing money source. Should arborist be looking to provide options and management strategies or simply remove trees?

 

Comments on morals, value of trees vs. humans, and firewood etc. may be made in jest but they certainly indicate an underlying bias to the thought the trees are dangerous, valuable only as firewood, and are organisms with no right to exist without a a humans okay.

 

Everyday I see the remains of trees that have been removed because they are a preceived nuisance or are believed to be dangerous. In 90% or more of the cases I know that there were options other than removal if the owner and tree service thought a little differently.

[D Mc]

That was a very good post, Mrtree. I would imagine that many will take a defensive stance in regards to this particular tree but I urge you to let the concepts of risk vs reward tumble around in your mind prior to a quick emotional response. It is too easy to misjudge what those that have been on site have concluded from just a picture because of the complexities.

But there is no one group of people with more understanding of the workings of trees and their contributions than arborists. If we do not speak on their behalf, who will?

Life will always be full of risk but as has been said "The quality of life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away".

 

Dave

[Stephen Blair]

I can see all your points, I was not asked to eliminate all forms or risk, just the 1 about the tree falling on the houses, I was contacted by them because they know I can do the tree removal not for my wealth of knowledge on tree mechanics and diseases, because that's not my thing, I am not an arborist, I am a tree cutter. Ps I have nothing to do with the wood after it hits the deck.

[mrtree]

Since the tree is going to be removed it would be very interesting to see cross-sections where the fungus is attached.

 

Would also be interesting to see the area racked and any root system that is exposed.

[Stephen Blair]

I will take pics of the cross sections and post here. I spoke to these customers for over an hour about all the various ideas and techniques I have picked up on here, I will give them this link to the thread aswell so they can see everyones opinions, I hide nothing.

I am not sure what your 2 nd request was, I think you want me to rake round the roots, this will be tricky as I am not taking a rake lol.

[mrtree]

You mention the tree is sitting on rock and is exposed to the winds from the ocean. You mention this as though it is a contributing factor to why the tree is to be removed.

 

I am curious to see if the roots are at the surface because the tree is on rock pavement or are roots running along crack lines or is the soil glacial till with lots of boulders. I believe we are far too eager to say trees on rocks are unstable "because the roots cannot go deep". Static stability of trees in soil does not require an an area of more than 1.5* the diameter of the trunk at soil level. If trees are on (solid) rock they often follow the fault lines (cracks) and literally are wedged in the rock. This is a very strong connection.

 

If you are concerned about the tree breaking because of high winds off the ocean remember that all trees can fail at 117kph wind speed, thus you need to determine if your tree will fail at lower wind speeds. Trees may fail at lower wind speeds for various reasons. Reduce rooting or excessive crown may allow for toppling, weak unions may allow for branch tearout and hollows may allow for breakage. BY using knowledge and resources such as the online tree safety calculators available from various web sites (see Erk Brudi for example) you can start to determine the likelihood of breakage below 117kph.

 

It is worthwhile remembering that if a customer is scared of a tree falling in a windstorm they should be advised that at 117kph their house may begin to fail (unless they live in a hobbit hole). Roofs etc. also fail under the same conditions that cause trees to fail.

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

Good posts Mr tree, indeed most people including arborists assume roots go deep and often they do, but if they knew how a trees form, including root crown, changes with age and decay they might actually start to realise just how tenaciously trees do hold their own!

 

we must NEVER lose sight of the simple truth, that you are only twice as likely to be killed by a tree as you are to be struck by lightning.

[Stephen Blair]

i have deleted 3 posts already to your post above, each i feel is pointless. So what i will do is just type what i think it is you are reading to save me the hassle.

I hate trees, i love cutting down trees, all i want is money, die trees die:thumbup:

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

i have deleted 3 posts already to your post above, each i feel is pointless. So what i will do is just type what i think it is you are reading to save me the hassle.

I hate trees, i love cutting down trees, all i want is money, die trees die:thumbup:

 

Stephen, i know you love trees and that you love cutting them down, so the above is just a tease, i know!

 

I used to love cutting them down, but then I learnt what it is to be a tree, the life, the beauty, the grace and form and the amazing life that flows from trees.

 

I always loved them, but now I know them, and revere them, Now rather than loving to cut them down, I love to service them and their needs, and that includes all the life that revolves around them.

 

my boss, and clients KNOW that I do not just care for trees, but deeply love them, cilents that want a cheap fell can contact those that specialise in that and know no different, and thats market choice and diversity.

 

But i choose another path, and attract a different client.

 

I know when i visit the ancient woods the trees smile at me and show me their secrets, because i hear them, I touch them and say Mutse atsi and smile because im in my element. lets not forget, at the end of the day, we are all children of the forest.

 

I know your a sensitive soul, so i urge you once in a while just ask yourself, does this tree deserve my love or to die today.