Thermal imaging its here to stay

[Marcus B-T]

I think I first met Glyn when I was doing my PhD goodnes knows how many years ago that was. He always comes across as a bit of a sales guy (even more than I do) but he is a good bloke under it all. The fact that he ahs opened his eyes to Ti is no big suprise he has shown interest for some time now and he is a clever guy as well. I did some consultancy for Bartletts with the the TI camera. What can I say it must have been good.

 

If you think that TI is all functional wood and vitality, think again. the pest ident side of things will probably be even bigger. I am doing some work for Forest Research on Oak Decline at the moment so watch this space on that, and there are other aspects as well such as quanitifcation of damage from bleeding canker. Ultimately it comes down to the multifunction of TI, the speed and the price (you can now get a decent camera for £2500), but as the price comes down watch out for the cowboys.

 

I don't have any worries about others comming on board with TI, at some point soon they will fnd out that the comparative aspects will only tell you so much and that ultimately you need the software that I developed and that others have invested in. The fact that Glyn has come on board just demonstrates the potentailof the technology.

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

I would have thought that Marcus and Andrew would be pleased that some other big names are putting their weight behind it.

 

But you get my drift! was a long time coming!

 

I think I first met Glyn when I was doing my PhD goodnes knows how many years ago that was. He always comes across as a bit of a sales guy (even more than I do) but he is a good bloke under it all. The fact that he ahs opened his eyes to Ti is no big suprise he has shown interest for some time now and he is a clever guy as well. I did some consultancy for Bartletts with the the TI camera. What can I say it must have been good.

 

If you think that TI is all functional wood and vitality, think again. the pest ident side of things will probably be even bigger. I am doing some work for Forest Research on Oak Decline at the moment so watch this space on that, and there are other aspects as well such as quanitifcation of damage from bleeding canker. Ultimately it comes down to the multifunction of TI, the speed and the price (you can now get a decent camera for £2500), but as the price comes down watch out for the cowboys.

 

I don't have any worries about others comming on board with TI, at some point soon they will fnd out that the comparative aspects will only tell you so much and that ultimately you need the software that I developed and that others have invested in. The fact that Glyn has come on board just demonstrates the potentailof the technology.

 

I wasnt being derogatory about Glyn in case anyone thought i was! i am just pointing out that SOME of you have been working your behinds off to convince folk at great personal sacrifice both financialy and time wise and i thought it needed saying, because i feel for anyone who works THAT hard and takes THAT many knocks trying to make a difference and do something "special"

 

Your very "lucid" today marcus! you on meds!

 

somones been giving you PR advice havent they!

[Lee Winger]

Well well boys & girls

 

Rumour control has just imparted some as yet unverified information re the use & therefore the longevity of THERMAL IMAGING in relation to Tree dynamics

 

rumour is that DR G Percival of Bartletts tree experts is an advocate of the technology & uses it himself

 

 

 

Discuss ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

 

All that means is Bartletts are offering the service, I take all knews like this with a very large pinch of salt.

 

I hear Tescos are now saying their cheaper own brand 'hot chocolate'' tastes as good if not better than the rest.....

[arb culture]

Iain, on balance I think thermal imaging has its merits, but when I spoke with Glyn the other day, and he didn't seem to rate Thermal imaging as a method of detecting decay at all.

 

What makes you say he's using it?

[Marcus B-T]

I'd heard from someone that Glyn was investigating TI about 2 months ago but put it down to curiousity. In terms of can it identify decay, read the paper in the arb journal, there are some complex things to be overcome that's why I had to develop a piece of software. The real discovery for me however was that decay detection and how you go about it is one thing but ultimately you have to put it into the context of how does that relate to the structure of the tree, this to my mind was the real benefit of TI, you could build large data bases and look at things in a comparative way. Not only can you determin decay but also whether it is significant or not. In many cases it isn't. We all sort of know this but here is a tool that can quantify this realtionship and give hard evedence. Iain eluded to a recent study of 63 lime veteran lime trees all with cavities at various points, but which are significant and require that the tree has further attention? Looking at the situation in a comparatiev way you find the extremities and can deal with these, this is just a small proportion of the population. The management is justified and the trees as a whole benefit, there are still lots of nesting site left, and the integrity of the landscape is retained (sustainability?).

[BatiArb]

Iain, on balance I think thermal imaging has its merits, but when I spoke with Glyn the other day, and he didn't seem to rate Thermal imaging as a method of detecting decay at all.

 

 

You are missing the point.

 

Thermal Imaging is not primarily a decay detection tool. Yes it can be used to identify the presence of decay in trees, but primarily it is looking at functional wood.

 

To me this is the real POSITIVE move in tree assessment.

 

Decay detection per-say has never really floated my boat….. It has always seamed to me to be looking at the wrong thing. I still do not understand why we spend so much money investigating it.

 

The fact is that by using heat as a tool to identify areas of functional wood within the trunk of the tree we can positively say that the tree has enough healthy structure to be safe. What more do you need to know......?

 

Tell me another tree assessment methodology that will give you information about the healthy parts of a tree’s trunk and branches…………..

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

Yes i think we need to get away from thinking of it as a tool that performs as a decay detector too.

 

We all ( i hope so anyway) know that trees can and do live for hundreds of years hollowed or decayed, it is the health/vitality that enables it to adapt and survive the decay proscesses. if a tree is sufficiently healthy and unstressed it can and will overcome weakness. thermo imaging is a means to establish its vitality and funtionality and therefor establish wether given time and some resources it will go on and continue to provide value to the landscape.

 

And with the european council setting a current value of 1.3 million euros on a one kilometer stretch of avenued trees it is only a question of time before TI is within budget.

 

the value attached to trees is about to change, we are entering a new age of awareness, and with heavy penalties for polution in the EU states trees will become increasingly important in mitigating our industrial outputs.

 

The next ten years are going to radicaly change our business, and i would suggest all who have a vested interest in the economy of trees to get on board alternatives NOW.

 

or find yourselfs way behind and in the dark ages, with little marketable resource!

[BatiArb]

Iain, on balance I think thermal imaging has its merits, but when I spoke with Glyn the other day, and he didn't seem to rate Thermal imaging as a method of detecting decay at all.

 

What makes you say he's using it?

 

 

I was having a conversation with Tony Kirkham today and he said that Glyn had offered him the service, with a view to being used at Kew.

 

However, he said that the camera Glyn was using was not as good as the one we had demonstrated at Kew a month or so previous, when we gave the tree team a seminar on Thermal Imaging.

 

I was discussing with Tony the prospect of screaming their trees for the OPM nests, which is something we are trialling at the moment. However, Tony was pleased to confirm that he is now clean of OPM as their spraying regime has proved very effective for them.

[arb culture]

Re Glyn, very strange. I don't understand - I suggest people ask him about his opinion rather than rely on hearsay.

 

Re TI, like I said, I think it has some merit. But as I've said all along, there is no way of knowing whether the calculations used are any good unless they are made available for discussion - and for various reasons, that seems like it's never going to happen.

 

On a seperate subject, investigating sound wood is good, but is this not the same as investigating not sound wood (ie decay) and seeing what's left?

 

Perhaps this should be a new thread?

[BatiArb]

Re Glyn, very strange. I don't understand - I suggest people ask him about his opinion rather than rely on hearsay.

 

I totally agree, and it would be really interesting to hear his considered thoughts on the technology and its applications.