RA and MS

[Mesterh]

Just a quick thought.

 

Plenty of times threads have popped up in reagrds to risk assesment and method statements.

 

Quite often some of us will post up the ones we use and/or link to the MS on your site.

 

Now, maybe a bit of a fund raiser for yourselves but why not come up with a good RA. One that can be filled in really quickly and easily otherwise a lot of us wont bother ie a tick box one sided A4 size jobbie. And a bit of a better method statement that can also be amended and filled in with ease for those H&S bods when doing commercial.

 

You could maybe charge a small fee to download them or sell them (RA's) as a note book style of something.

 

Heres a link where Steve is trying to sort something out(I hope he dont mind me suggesting this to you)

 

http://arbtalk.co.uk/forum/general-chat/8281-risk-assessments-method-statements-last-time-hopefully.html

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

the AA offer a health and saftey package which is good for this purpose, about 250 quid i believe? paul?

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

Just a quick thought.

 

Plenty of times threads have popped up in reagrds to risk assesment and method statements.

 

Quite often some of us will post up the ones we use and/or link to the MS on your site.

 

Now, maybe a bit of a fund raiser for yourselves but why not come up with a good RA. One that can be filled in really quickly and easily otherwise a lot of us wont bother ie a tick box one sided A4 size jobbie. And a bit of a better method statement that can also be amended and filled in with ease for those H&S bods when doing commercial.

 

You could maybe charge a small fee to download them or sell them (RA's) as a note book style of something.

 

Heres a link where Steve is trying to sort something out(I hope he dont mind me suggesting this to you)

 

http://arbtalk.co.uk/forum/general-chat/8281-risk-assessments-method-statements-last-time-hopefully.html

 

Thanks for the post 'Mesterh',

 

We produce a 'H&S Package' (£45 +p&p) which is designed to help small companies put some/most of the necessary procedures (paperwork systems etc.) in place in oredr to be able to evidence the raft of legilsation and regulation we, as an industry, need to comply with. Interestingly (REALLY?...Paul needs to get out more!) this is usually only actioned once the company expects to be audited, i.e. AC assessment, before that stage, in particular smaller companies, are often 'compliant/competent' on site, but have no need to demonstaret such atthe documnetray level...even tho this may be helpful.

 

Anyway the H&S package only includes a short introduction to Risk Assessment as this is a key, and very important, area of H&S management and we encourage people to attend a specific one-day RA workshop we deliver whihc includes a RA system that can be readily imported into the company AND it's specific to arb contracting.

 

The reason we don't offer the risk assessment as a freedownload doc. (although there are similiar styled generics on the HSE website see http://www.hse.gov.uk/risk/casestudies/pdf/bricklayers.pdf ) nor as an 'off the shelf' product is because we believe it is vitally important the perosn implemnting the system / undertaking the risk assessments fully understands the system through relevant training and is therefore (more) 'competent' so to do (this view is wholly endorsed by HSE). This is absolutely not the AA trying to make money from the industry but we do not, and I frimly believe never should, release the RA methodology without the training. Another view would be it costs £180+VAT (£150+VAT for members) for the course inc. a RA methodology whihc has been 'tried and tested' and is recognised by HSE = good value for money? (I think so!)

 

On this particular point I did deliver some RA training recently to large national landscape/arb contractor as a consequence of an 'Improvement Notice' served by HSE in response to an accident in the company. The 'company' engaged a very well known, and very well respecetd, national H&S Consultancy to deliver this but it was deemed unsatisfactory by HSE so they cam e to us, I delivered 2 workshops modified to include a couple of practical exercise (which have now become a standard part of the workshop) and HSE were happy and signed the company off as complying.

 

Hope this answers your question and sorry if I've gone off the thread slightly!

 

Cheers..

Paul

[Mesterh]

I think it did!

 

Thanks I'll have another read over it.

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

I think it did!

 

Thanks I'll have another read over it.

 

Appen I should start posting in episodes eh?!...'to be continued!'

 

SORRY!

 

Paul

[Mesterh]

Right had another read through it.

 

I see your point about not wanting to hand out generic RA's or easy quick fill in sheets since you think that everyone should be fully aware of what the risks are and not just how to get away with filling in paper work for the HSE(which is what I want ) Although I do do them properly for commercial when asked)

 

But, surely anyone trained to NPTC level in tree climbing and tree work operations will have already been assessed on there RA and shown how to identify risks. I know I have and did.

I dont want to have to justify why I shouldnt be using a MEWP instead of climbing, shouldnt use a chainsaw instead of a hand saw etc etc on every job etc.

 

I was just hoping for a very quick and simple form to fill in so that I would actually do it. I can obviously only speak for myself but have worked with enough other individuals and companies to know that a lot of others feel the same about filling in RA's ie they dont bother at all.

 

If something was there it might get used more often.

 

Anyhow cheers for the advice and pointers always appreciated.

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

Right had another read through it.

 

I see your point about not wanting to hand out generic RA's or easy quick fill in sheets since you think that everyone should be fully aware of what the risks are and not just how to get away with filling in paper work for the HSE(which is what I want ) Although I do do them properly for commercial when asked)

 

But, surely anyone trained to NPTC level in tree climbing and tree work operations will have already been assessed on there RA and shown how to identify risks. I know I have and did.

I dont want to have to justify why I shouldnt be using a MEWP instead of climbing, shouldnt use a chainsaw instead of a hand saw etc etc on every job etc.

 

I was just hoping for a very quick and simple form to fill in so that I would actually do it. I can obviously only speak for myself but have worked with enough other individuals and companies to know that a lot of others feel the same about filling in RA's ie they dont bother at all.

 

If something was there it might get used more often.

 

Anyhow cheers for the advice and pointers always appreciated.

 

 

Hey 'Mesterh', thanks for posting back.

 

That simple form (kinda) for the site specifc risk assessment is available BUT I'm afraid you would have to come on the course as this not only covers the hazards and risk etc. covered by your existing NPTC competnece but alos introduces the legilsative requirements for RA (yawn , yawn, BUT important if you're an employer or engager of subbies) AND, more importantly introduces the system and how it works, how to implemnet it and how to maintain it.

 

For the smaller, straight forward jobs, where as you say the clients won't request it you can propbably operate adequately from the generics with a good verbal brieifng on site. But, for the bigger, more complex jobs, EVEN I would suggest where you are a 'less tahn 5' employer/engager, a documented risk assessment would be a good failsafe.

 

Once familair with the sytem, and it's in place, I reckon 5-10mins at the start of a job that's gonna last say at least half a day, typically, to do the RA and 'Emergency Contingencies' is time well spent. BUT then I would say that as I work for the AA, deliver the course, and I'm a 'NEBOSH' anorak....but I also believe, used correctly, a good RA systems prevents serious injuries and ensures, if they do happen, adequate arrangements are in place to deal with this.

 

If you are interested I think there's still a couple of places left on the Chorley/Leyland course in early May.

 

Cheers..

Paul

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

I actualy enjoy filling in our Site Specific RA these days, really keeps you thinking about your game, would have torn one up 10 years ago!

 

anyone listening who doesnt do one on everyjob, i promise you if I can learn to not only fill one in but do it and most importantly comprehensivley ANYONE can get used to it and even accept it as part and parcel of the work site setup, just another task like setting up the truck and chipper, no hardship at all, just a nessesary and worthwhile aspect of the days work.

[Mesterh]

Can I ask what you fill in/add to your RA.

 

 

Theres no way I'm goiig to be little my men by saying oh watch out for falling branches timber , ohh the chipper infeed hopper, ohh dont trip on a log, dont touch the nasty saw, blah blah blah etc.

 

 

Doing a Rupe so dont take it personal.

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

Can I ask what you fill in/add to your RA.

 

 

Theres no way I'm goiig to be little my men by saying oh watch out for falling branches timber , ohh the chipper infeed hopper, ohh dont trip on a log, dont touch the nasty saw, blah blah blah etc.

 

 

Doing a Rupe so dont take it personal.

 

I do FULLY understand this point of view, and sometimes it feels awful patronising to be told, but there is a great deal of protection for those in charge involved in this proscess.

 

It will be fine till somone gets hurt, then when your interviewed it will be asked "why" your men where not made aware of the risks involved at the site.

 

To which your reply will be " I didnt want to patronise my staff!":thumbdown:

 

It takes a little while, but RA becomes second nature and NOT the great bind we all dread. It isnt hard to do, shows your crew your in charge and most importantly caring about thier H&S.

 

And if your Staff fail to respect your efforts to be a professional and protect them from themselves, get new staff.