TPO pending around 2 acres of agricultural land appeal or not?

[Michaelbranch]

Hi all,

Not sure this is the right forum to be posting this query but perhaps someone could advise as to the best forum for this.

I own 4 acres of agricultural land surrounded by trees that have recently been placed under a Tree Preservation Order (TPO) by the council in Wales, which is generally strict about land management. I have a few days left to appeal the TPO and am unsure if it's wise to do so. My main concern is the low-hanging branches that encroach upon the land and obstruct a track where we park vehicles. I'm considering whether to appeal the TPO to get permission for pruning the low level branches (up to 3.5 m height). What are the risks and benefits of appealing versus not appealing, and what would you advise in this situation? My instinct tells me that the council will just automatically refuse any request basing it on requests by adjacent land owners.  Thanks for your help.

 

[Steve Bullman]

Can't imagine you would have an issue getting permission to crown life trees for access. If thats your only concern then I don't see any reason to appeal the TPO

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

Hi, a technicality - you can't generally appeal a TPO but you can submit an objection to the Council (LPA) within 28 days (I think) - you may wish to consider doing so "on principle" if you disagree the TPO is necessary ("expedient".)

Potentially, thereafter, and assuming they confirm the TPO, if you apply to CL the trees and they refuse an appeal (against the decision) can then be lodged and, possibly, your original objection may be considered ("MAY be" but may not.)

As Steve says, CL works are usually relatively small-scale and provided specified correctly, and accurately, when you make the application, should hopefully be consented. 

 

ATB 

Paul 

[daltontrees]

You can object to a TPO. It's not known as an appeal.

In your case you would have to be objecting on the basis tha ttrees are blocking your access. If the Council agreed it would have to modify the Order to exclude those trees or allow works to them.

But in reality if they are blocking a lawful use of the lane, they aren't even protected because there is a statutory exemption for tree works to prevent or abate a nuisance. Even if the TPO stands, and assuming you have a legal right of use of the lane, you wouldn't even need to apply, you could just do the crown lifting. Even if it's not that clear-cut, you could apply and a refusal is unlikely.

Objecting to the Order won't change any of that.

[Michaelbranch]

Thank you all for clarifying. I didn't receive notifications of new posts hence the late reply. Ok so the wording is objection not appeal. The trees in question are not on a path perse.  When we bought the land we had to decide where we were going to have our main access, and park up our vehicles away from the main path that is used by other plot holders.  It is 4m wide at the top of the plot and runs the length of the plot.  Due to overhanging branches it wouldn't be possible to drive the length of designated path without coming into contact with some hazel branches.  That's one issue. The other issue is that if you imagine a rectangle that is the shape of the land we would like to create an access path around the perimeter as the bottom half of the land is for fruit trees. Top part of the land for growing produce. As sone of the trees have very long low branches we would lose a fair amount of land due to this and have to create the path  6m away from the boundary.  The other issue is that as the TPO objection deadline is on the 16th of this month there is hardly any time to prepare for it. The council has already objected to a few other applications made by other plot holders so I get a sense the default answer would be "no".  Be eager to hear what you would advise in this situation. Thank you. 

Edited August 13 by Michaelbranch

[Michaelbranch]

By applications  these were not TPOs. 

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

see 'DaltonTrees' reply above and, in principle, an application for CL works (for justifiable reasons, as you've indicated, provided correctly specified) is unlikely to be refused I would suggest.

Hence the proposed TPO is simply ensuring retention of the trees long term (perhaps because of change of land use to some degree = deemed 'expedient'.)

Good luck with it all.

Paul

[daltontrees]

On 13/08/2024 at 07:42, Michaelbranch said:

Thank you all for clarifying. I didn't receive notifications of new posts hence the late reply. Ok so the wording is objection not appeal. The trees in question are not on a path perse.  When we bought the land we had to decide where we were going to have our main access, and park up our vehicles away from the main path that is used by other plot holders.  It is 4m wide at the top of the plot and runs the length of the plot.  Due to overhanging branches it wouldn't be possible to drive the length of designated path without coming into contact with some hazel branches.  That's one issue. The other issue is that if you imagine a rectangle that is the shape of the land we would like to create an access path around the perimeter as the bottom half of the land is for fruit trees. Top part of the land for growing produce. As sone of the trees have very long low branches we would lose a fair amount of land due to this and have to create the path  6m away from the boundary.  The other issue is that as the TPO objection deadline is on the 16th of this month there is hardly any time to prepare for it. The council has already objected to a few other applications made by other plot holders so I get a sense the default answer would be "no".  Be eager to hear what you would advise in this situation. Thank you. 

You may as well object then. It shouldn't take long, just put your concerns in plain language and add a plan to make it clear which bits you are referring to. You need to be clear that you 'object to the Order in its current form because it would prevent .....'  and idelaly suggest what the modification shoudl be, either by excluding certain areas (or trees) from the Order or by allowing certain maintenance works to be done without consent. Make sure the objection goes to the right place, on time, adn tha tit is clear what Order you are objecting to. 1/2 hour should do it. Might not make a difference, but it will have to be considered.

Once the objections are in, the Council has up to 6 months to confirm the Order, either as it is or modified. It has to go to a committee. So you can contact the relevant councillors and seek their support.

[Michaelbranch]

If they refuse is there provision to appeal  to another government  agency ?

 

Thank you

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[daltontrees]

56 minutes ago, Michaelbranch said:

If they refuse is there provision to appeal  to another government  agency ?

No. There is a limited time for challenging the Order in a court (name of court depends on what country you are in, eg England it's the High Court) purely on a point of law.

So if you think the Order is unnecessary, don't challenge it. If you think the Order or procedures did not follow the rules, an expensive challenge is possible. But bear in mind, if the Council slipped up and a challenge succeeded, the Council can simply start again and do it right second time around.

The system is stacked in favour of Councils bcause courts won't interfere in Council discretion about what is merited, and a legal challenge would be really very expensive, probably well into 5 figures if it went to hearing.