Trees in trees

[ABtrees]

So away the last couple of days and came across this self-set, healthy-looking fir growing IN a big storm damaged beech.  It seemed to be properly rooted, not just perched on some leaf litter that had collected in the wound.  Has anyone else found similar and can someone please explain to me how this works - is the self-set parasitic or saprophytic or neither ?  Do its roots grow into the 'parent tree' or just tap into the sap?  I really haven't a clue - but I'd be interested to find out and I guess there must be loads of other examples so lets see them ?  (My pen is bottom / left of the fir for size reference)

[Steve Bullman]

Come across countless Elders in my time, but never a fir

[Will Heal]

Saw this rhody, growing on an oak branch the other day. Seemed to be rooted in the moss growing on the branch. Plenty of moisture for it seeing it was near a water fall

[ABtrees]

6 hours ago, Will Heal said:

Saw this rhody, growing on an oak branch the other day. Seemed to be rooted in the moss growing on the branch. Plenty of moisture for it seeing it was near a water fall

There you go - Will that's a great example but can someone explain how it works.  Presumably it starts with a seed germination - and I can see how a clump of moss would make that happen but that is a proper tree (I'm guessing 1.5-2m). Where is it getting its nutrients from - it must be the host?  So as it grows do it's roots effectively graft into the old (host) tree ? Like my pic, the branch its on doesn't look too healthy either.  So for me the question is, is a successful self-set dependent on an unusual but not necessarily uncommon set of circumstances ? 

Edited February 23, 2018 by ABtrees

[Gary Prentice]

7 hours ago, Steve Bullman said:

Come across countless Elders in my time, but never a fir

And ash, sycamore, Rowan, rhododendron and yew..

 

 

[ABtrees]

5 minutes ago, Gary Prentice said:

And ash, sycamore, Rowan, rhododendron and yew..

 

 

Have you got any pics Gary ?

 

So to my simple brain, looking at that list certain types of seed (tree) are going to be more successful than others - small and lots of them - or just mainly those eaten by birds ?

[Gary Prentice]

7 minutes ago, ABtrees said:

There you go - Will that's a great example but can someone explain how it works.  Presumably it starts with a seed germination - and I can see how a clump of moss would make that happen but that is a proper tree (I'm guessing 1.5-2m). Where is it getting its nutrients from - it must be the host?  So as it grows do it's roots effectively graft into the old (host) tree ? Like my pic, the branch its on doesn't look too healthy either.  So for me the question is, is a successful self-set dependent on an unusual but not necessarily uncommon set of circumstances ? 

I won’t be growing parasitically, It will be growing in, and utilising the nutrients of, decayed/decaying wood in the host tree. 

You’ll find adventitious roots within hollow trees themselves, where the tree is feeding on the wood that was formerly it’s own heartwood 

Ain’t nature wonderful (and opportunist)

[Gary Prentice]

3 minutes ago, ABtrees said:

Have you got any pics Gary ?

 

So to my simple brain, looking at that list certain types of seed (tree) are going to be more successful than others - small and lots of them - or just mainly those eaten by birds ?

I’m not sure if birds are a major factor or not, probably more to do with the seed dispersal mechanism and quantity of seeds produced. 

Ive seen buddleja growing in the gutter in leaf mould (2m tall) and growing in old pointing 30 ft up the side of the building.

[Will Heal]

There you go - Will that's a great example but can someone explain how it works.  Presumably it starts with a seed germination - and I can see how a clump of moss would make that happen but that is a proper tree (I'm guessing 1.5-2m). Where is it getting its nutrients from - it must be the host?  So as it grows do it's roots effectively graft into the old (host) tree ? Like my pic, the branch its on doesn't look too healthy either.  So for me the question is, is a successful self-set dependent on an unusual but not necessarily uncommon set of circumstances ? 

No, a seed would never germinate and then graft into the Tree it was growing on, it just feeds on whatever moisture and nutrients it can get its roots into. I think a tree has to be the same species to graft onto another.

[Gary Prentice]

Never say never! These photos came up on UKTC this afternoon!

 

The photographer is going back to look again, there's talk that the holly seed started to grow in a fissure in the bark and then the oak has encapsulated it, or it might have naturally grafted to it and the holly is living hemiparasitically on the oak?

 

 Trees just love to prove the experts wrong