Diseased council owned TPO tree

[oakum]

Thanks Edward for a very balanced and reasonable reply

 

2 quick points but will get back to thread tonight

 

Can a non-owner place an application to fell and could you link me to any info on this TIA

 

There are two TOs on the case one employed by the LPA and the other employed by an outside agency who manage/advise the council - this officer in a previous life was also a TO on the same council.

 

The solicitor was a private firm who I assume was acting on behalf of the agency mentioned above.

 

Steve

[Gary Prentice]

LA TPO apps to themselves must be quite rare I'd have thought?

 

Not really.

 

I don't know, but would a visual inspection be classed as fulfilling their duty of care?

 

I would have thought so - what else would they do?

 

As an LA TO we have no access to technology and a massive amount of trees to manage.

 

I really do understand the lack of resources within many councils, and the cost of advanced inspections. But, (there's always a but:biggrin:) lack of resources would, I think, be an unacceptable excuse, should a tree fail.

 

The tree is known to be colonized by a decay fungi. The extent is unknown and probably (we're looking at pics here) can not be determined visually.

If someone is jumping up and poking about in a cavity and can say with conviction the decay appears compartmentalized and not intensive and ongoing - that's a different story.

 

But looking at it and 'guessing' that it's okay, when there are well established and accepted means to quantify the extent of dysfunction and strength loss, wouldn't be fulfilling your duty of care.

 

An ex TO I met who had worked for a local authority that failed in their duty of care/inspection, which tragically led to a loss of life, said that a death due to trees was needed to safeguard and improve the budget. I don't like it, but that's the world we live in.

[Gary Prentice]

Thanks Edward for a very balanced and reasonable reply

 

2 quick points but will get back to thread tonight

 

Can a non-owner place an application to fell and could you link me to any info on this TIA

 

There are two TOs on the case one employed by the LPA and the other employed by an outside agency who manage/advise the council - this officer in a previous life was also a TO on the same council.

 

The solicitor was a private firm who I assume was acting on behalf of the agency mentioned above.

 

Steve

 

Anyone can submit a tree app for someone elses tree. On the decision notice there will be a note, to paraphrase, that they give consent but you have to have the permission of the tree/landowner.

[Anno]

I really do understand the lack of resources within many councils, and the cost of advanced inspections. But, (there's always a but:biggrin:) lack of resources would, I think, be an unacceptable excuse, should a tree fail.

 

The tree is known to be colonized by a decay fungi. The extent is unknown and probably (we're looking at pics here) can not be determined visually.

If someone is jumping up and poking about in a cavity and can say with conviction the decay appears compartmentalized and not intensive and ongoing - that's a different story.

 

But looking at it and 'guessing' that it's okay, when there are well established and accepted means to quantify the extent of dysfunction and strength loss, wouldn't be fulfilling your duty of care.

 

An ex TO I met who had worked for a local authority that failed in their duty of care/inspection, which tragically led to a loss of life, said that a death due to trees was needed to safeguard and improve the budget. I don't like it, but that's the world we live in.

 

It's an interesting point that sometimes causes sleepless nights, but I would use the best tools available and make an informed decision, using VTA / QTRA methodology and over 30 years of experience, however if you look at case history the decision will be made in the courts and can only use expert witnesses to ascertain where the responsibilities lie (dependent obviously on why they are getting paid!)

 

Also although I am quite loyal to the people who pay my wages, i would not back down on a decision that I knew was right and would suffer the consequences.

[Gary Prentice]

It's an interesting point that sometimes causes sleepless nights, but I would use the best tools available and make an informed decision, using VTA / QTRA methodology and over 30 years of experience, however if you look at case history the decision will be made in the courts and can only use expert witnesses to ascertain where the responsibilities lie (dependent obviously on why they are getting paid!)

 

Also although I am quite loyal to the people who pay my wages, i would not back down on a decision that I knew was right and would suffer the consequences.

 

Can't be fairer, or more honest, than that.

[Anno]

Can't be fairer, or more honest, than that.

 

Cheers, sometimes feel like the Cuckoo in the nest here...

 

Great site though and full of very knowledgeable people and the occasional loon!!

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

...and the occasional loon!!

 

Shhhh, Gary can be a very sensitive Guy

[Gary Prentice]

I heard that!

[oakum]

Not totally sure of the "ins n outs" here (as not familiar with the intricacies 2012 regs) in terms of council tree TPO'd, a rare occurrence, but I understand if its CA they simply have to place a notice and if no objections they can then proceed...or similar. However, clearly the tree is dead and thereby excepted from the regs (if applicable) so the council could act accordingly, i.e. cut the tree down if they so wish / felt the need.

 

Further, as a public body, they are ultimately answerable to their residents, collectively, and hence it would be reasonable for them to consult 'local' residents regardless.

 

In terms of 'likelihood' of failure resulting in damage, and taking into account the likely size of the part that fails, probably upper stem section rather than the whole stick, I would be of the opinion it is low level. Doubtless the Beech to which you refer had leaves...a sail area?

 

Just MY "thoughts out loud."

 

Cheers,

Paul

 

Paul it's not a CA so normal app required (to fell a dead and diseased tree??)

 

I have to disagree with your last paragraph re damage - if the tree failed at 5 or even 10m then damage would be considerable.

 

Re: the Beech failure and sail area - this would be a discussion for another day and would concern the perennial debate of leaving large trees close to properties during development and the change of the trees' environment that inevitably takes place - even with all our knowledge and best practices put in place it still occurs.

 

Steve

[oakum]

Anyone can submit a tree app for someone elses tree. On the decision notice there will be a note, to paraphrase, that they give consent but you have to have the permission of the tree/landowner.

 

Gary, do you mean needing permission to make the application or to carry out the works - if you mean to make the app then I don't think there's any chance of that.

 

Steve