Root protected zone

[sangmish]

I have an Oak tree which has a tpo . The tree is just outside my fence . I have 2 queries:

Firstly the lawn area within my fence which is in the root protection , I want to park my guests cars there. Just wanted to know how can i convert that area in a parking area and do I need to apply for planning permission for that.

Secondly my fence needs changing as it is on wooden posts and is rotting as they have never been changed in the last 30 years. I want to know can I cahnge my fence with like for like or can I have concrete posts and bases.

[sangmish]

Ed, your reply is very useful. Just want to know do I still need permission if I am planning to change my fence like for like. Its on wooden post and I am planning to do the same way and not the new modern concrete post and slab fencing then I might have to dig new holes.

 

Also will there be a charge to seek planning permission for putting cellweb in my root protection area for occasional car parking.

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

Providing the property is outside of a Conservation Area, it is likely that Permitted Development Rights will allow you to construct a fence (1.0metre to front and 2.0mtere to resr is usual although there are some oddities with this).

 

 

 

PD will probably allow you to construct a car parking area. So far so good and no planning is required and no communication with the LPA or TO is required.

 

 

 

The only concern here is damage to a TPO tree but if you employ a good arb consultant, there will be a range of methodology available so as not cause damage.

 

 

 

My view would be to involve a good consultant, have them, inspect the tree if they agree, ask them to prepare a methoology for the car parking and fence.

 

 

 

Follow the methodology to the letter and everything should be ok. No need to involve the LPA or TO but you have the paperwork if anyone comes calling.l

 

 

That's more measured than my rather bullish approach! 👍🏻

 

Just saying, if spending money on a consultant / methodology is unappealing to the OP, they "could" just throw down some gravel and park a car on it.... be a long time, and rather tricky (expensive) to PROVE the car parking was any contributory factor in potential future adverse effect on the tree.

[fastrac]

waiting to start a path through a wooded area in a old vicarage the client a national company have got planning for the works as trees tpo just doing a detailed construction method to be aprovede by planning using 3d ccs with 5 to 20 mm gravel

[daltontrees]

This is a classic game of trumps. But the bottom lines seem to be these.

 

1. Abatemenet of a nuisance that is preventing use of land for parking is only a valid exception to the TPO protection "so far as may be necessary for the prevention or abatement of a nuisance" 2012 Reg 14(a)(ii). The important bits there are 'so far as', and 'necessary'. The case mentioned, Perrin, showed that the damage to a tree's roots shoild only be occsioned if no reasonable engineering solution is possible to avoid it. It is not carte blanche to take the opportunity to rid the land of roots completely for the sake of it. As others have said, a properly considered technical solution should be possible that would avoid all but minimal damage to roots, and still achieve parking. From all this I would conclude that care should be taken to minimise, so far as reasonably practicable, root damage whether planning permission is required or not.

 

2. The abatement is not permitted if it is not lawful in all respects, including obttaining all other necessary statutory consents. I am alluding of course to planning permission. As has been mentioned, the parking area may be an engineering operation and should therefore require consent unless there is a very clear permitted development right. And of course if permission is required and is obtained, this creates an exemption to the need for a separate TPO application (Reg 14(a)(vii), although it may come with conditions designed to protect the tree.

 

Personally I take the view as I see the law doing that exemptions should not be used to circumvent the general obligation to do anything (whether abatement of nuisance or the use of permitted development rights) in a way that minimises or avoids otherwise avoidable collateral damage. It is a good precautionary principle that avoids later recriminations or unwanted legacies that might materialise only when trying to sell a house years later.

 

The same applies to fence posts.

 

So, ask the Council. Only if its response cannot be justified will it be necessary to wheel out the big guns.

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

But not the will to do so..

 

 

The will existed, the need to exercise it wasn't tested as sense prevailed!

 

👍🏻

[Chris at eden]

I have an Oak tree which has a tpo . The tree is just outside my fence . I have 2 queries:

Firstly the lawn area within my fence which is in the root protection , I want to park my guests cars there. Just wanted to know how can i convert that area in a parking area and do I need to apply for planning permission for that.

Secondly my fence needs changing as it is on wooden posts and is rotting as they have never been changed in the last 30 years. I want to know can I cahnge my fence with like for like or can I have concrete posts and bases.

 

You don't need planning consent as long as the drive is porous otherwise yes you would. You may find the use of cellweb problematic though. The cell itself will need to be at least 100mm to support a car and so by the time you have the wearing and binder course on you may end up with a 150mm level change. How do you get that down to meet the road/drive without digging. If you dig then you may be cutting tree roots so consent required for that.

 

If you are digging for fence posts then it would be worth putting in a TPO app to prune small roots (<25mm), and you will need to be flexible with the post positions in case you find a large root.

 

Speak with the tree officer to agree a way forward. He / she may want a basic method statement to support the application for digging within the RPA and possibly options for the drive.

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

You don't need planning consent as long as the drive is porous otherwise yes you would. You may find the use of cellweb problematic though. The cell itself will need to be at least 100mm to support a car and so by the time you have the wearing and binder course on you may end up with a 150mm level change. How do you get that down to meet the road/drive without digging. If you dig then you may be cutting tree roots so consent required for that.

 

 

 

If you are digging for fence posts then it would be worth putting in a TPO app to prune small roots (<25mm), and you will need to be flexible with the post positions in case you find a large root.

 

 

 

Speak with the tree officer to agree a way forward. He / she may want a basic method statement to support the application for digging within the RPA and possibly options for the drive.

 

 

Levels can go up as well as down Chris!

 

I'm definitely presenting the "devil's egg based alcoholic beverage" position, but all of what is briefly described COULD be achievable without any acquiescence (cost or acknowledgement of authority) to assumed legislative authority if the land owner were of such a temperament to be sufficiently independent of mind and deed!

[oslac]

Levels can go up as well as down Chris!

 

I'm definitely presenting the "devil's egg based alcoholic beverage" position, but all of what is briefly described COULD be achievable without any acquiescence (cost or acknowledgement of authority) to assumed legislative authority if the land owner were of such a temperament to be sufficiently independent of mind and deed!

 

If you are saying that a half decent arb consultant would instill such confidence in the Client as to make him/her realise that all tree related issues, including construction methodology would be fully covered and that contacting the LPA is not only not necessary but could be detrimental to the whole process, I agree with you.

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

If you are saying that a half decent arb consultant would instill such confidence in the Client as to make him/her realise that all tree related issues, including construction methodology would be fully covered and that contacting the LPA is not only not necessary but could be detrimental to the whole process, I agree with you.

 

 

I think I understand what you appear to be interpreting from what I wrote, and I think, if I understand it correctly, I agree (with your agreement!)

[Chris at eden]

I think I understand what you appear to be interpreting from what I wrote, and I think, if I understand it correctly, I agree (with your agreement!)

 

I think you may both possibly be on dodgy ground. How do you get the no dig drive down to meet the highway level when you consider that the RPA probably meets the highway. I think you need to grade down and that may require TPO consent. Otherwise, you may have a steep ramp onto the new drive, pretty unsightly.

 

The LPA will know as soon as you start work so I wouldn't go under the radar. There are other considerations. What if the PD rights have been removed from the property say by a long standing condition? What if the planner comes out to look and says that the change in level is an engineering operation and therefore requires consent? I've seen this happen and its can stop works half way through.