Root protected zone

[sangmish]

I have an Oak tree which has a tpo . The tree is just outside my fence . I have 2 queries:

Firstly the lawn area within my fence which is in the root protection , I want to park my guests cars there. Just wanted to know how can i convert that area in a parking area and do I need to apply for planning permission for that.

Secondly my fence needs changing as it is on wooden posts and is rotting as they have never been changed in the last 30 years. I want to know can I cahnge my fence with like for like or can I have concrete posts and bases.

[oslac]

I think you may both possibly be on dodgy ground. How do you get the no dig drive down to meet the highway level when you consider that the RPA probably meets the highway. I think you need to grade down and that may require TPO consent. Otherwise, you may have a steep ramp onto the new drive, pretty unsightly.

 

The LPA will know as soon as you start work so I wouldn't go under the radar. There are other considerations. What if the PD rights have been removed from the property say by a long standing condition? What if the planner comes out to look and says that the change in level is an engineering operation and therefore requires consent? I've seen this happen and its can stop works half way through.

 

Oh, so much to consider.

 

Ok the easy one first. I would be very surprised if it would be classed as engineering. This has never come up with me and I would be astounded if it ever did, unless I was constructing some fantastic structure and even then, I doubt it would be an issue.

 

Driveway down is an issue and there is no real answer to this. I would apply for a cross-over and let the council do what the council do best and ignore the tree and its roots whilst dropping kerbs. This issue is variable though and may depend if the meeting of the proposed parking area and roadway/footpath is already paved or bare grass. In any case, it is likely to be a Highway issue if a vehicle crosses the footpath.

 

I don't think there is anything in the TPO legislation to stop you from cutting tree roots and/or changing soil levels providing you don't (and to paraphrase) destroy the tree. Its not a BS 5837 issue, unless you want it to be. It may be possible to hand dig a trench and see if roots are present. It may be possible to sleeve roots, to plate the rooting area, or to offset the rooting area.

 

I don't see why PD rights would be removed. If in a Conservation Area, PD rights will almost certainly be removed. If a condition, 5 years is max. Both easy to check.

 

I know every situation is different and what works for one may not for another, and in this situation, we don't know the facts but my point is, you do not need to go running to the TO. As a consultant, you should have enough knowledge,experience and skill to manage the situation and rather than ask the TO, perhaps you should be telling him/her. Even if you do feel you need to speak to the TO, I would get my paperwork in line first.

 

If the TO turns up make him/her a cup of tea and talk about more important things.

 

Mind you, some TO's are so involved with their work that one of my client's was told that they could not use their ride-on mower beneath a TPO tree's canopy growing in their garden for fear that compaction would occur.

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

I think you may both possibly be on dodgy ground. How do you get the no dig drive down to meet the highway level when you consider that the RPA probably meets the highway. I think you need to grade down and that may require TPO consent. Otherwise, you may have a steep ramp onto the new drive, pretty unsightly.

 

We're all making up scenarios that might support the situation in order to make the argument "work" where actually, none of us know the ground! The area might be above road level and only require grading down

 

Anyhooooo, I've lost interest in the OPs scenario (I'm not actually sure I had any in the first place other than challenging Ed's assertions for the sake of devilment!) they can ask and pay away to the LA to their hearts content!

 

 

 

The LPA will know as soon as you start work so I wouldn't go under the radar. There are other considerations. What if the PD rights have been removed from the property say by a long standing condition? What if the planner comes out to look and says that the change in level is an engineering operation and therefore requires consent? I've seen this happen and its can stop works half way through.

 

 

Again, if all of those considerations had been stated at post 1, they weren't......

[daltontrees]

I don't think there is anything in the TPO legislation to stop you from cutting tree roots and/or changing soil levels providing you don't (and to paraphrase) destroy the tree. Its not a BS 5837 issue, unless you want it to be. It may be possible to hand dig a trench and see if roots are present. It may be possible to sleeve roots, to plate the rooting area, or to offset the rooting area.

 

 

Sorry to burst your bubble, but 'wilful damage' is specifically referred to in the Act. Furthermore it is an indictable offence rahter than a summary one, openign the way to unlimited fines.

 

Now you could argue that it might not be the primary intention, when digging out a drive, to damage the tree, but you'd be onto plums. You'd be damaging the tree, knowing that you are going to damage it for whatever related objective, and that is an offence. It could fall far short of destruction of the tree and still be a very serious offence. Courts don't paraphrase, they can only follow the letter of the law. Namely 'damage'.

 

For that and other reasons I'd advise the OP not to follow your 'go for it' advice without knowing what he was getting into. I don't want an argument with you, but remember we have a member of the public asking for advice about a situation, and as it stands some people are saying (me included) ask the Council and save grief, worst case scenario a delegated powers free TPO application or maybe £150 for a combo PP and TPO application and have somethign to put witht he title deeds as comfort when you sell. Some are saying a ballsy consultant will persuade the client to go for it without process. I think that those consultants don't really exist, at least not for long.

 

I am as plesed as anyone to applaud the hero who takes on teh system, challenges longhelp misconceptions, wins and makes the world a better place, ridded of one bit of unnecessary bureaucracy. I just don't think that this case is worthwhile.

[daltontrees]

I think I understand what you appear to be interpreting from what I wrote, and I think, if I understand it correctly, I agree (with your agreement!)

 

Insofar as my comprehension of your inferred understanding of what oslac implied from your original premise is inconsistent with my prescribed conclusions, I don't think that I can do anything but not concur with your concurrence thereof.

[sangmish]

Hi Just want to add here that i have always had a fence from the time the house was constructed and oak tree is just outside the fence.Its just that I want to replace them as its rotten, shabby and can fall off anytime when there is a storm. Can I do a like for like without digging in new holes. Use the existing holes.

[Chris at eden]

Oh, so much to consider.

 

Ok the easy one first. I would be very surprised if it would be classed as engineering. This has never come up with me and I would be astounded if it ever did, unless I was constructing some fantastic structure and even then, I doubt it would be an issue.

 

Driveway down is an issue and there is no real answer to this. I would apply for a cross-over and let the council do what the council do best and ignore the tree and its roots whilst dropping kerbs. This issue is variable though and may depend if the meeting of the proposed parking area and roadway/footpath is already paved or bare grass. In any case, it is likely to be a Highway issue if a vehicle crosses the footpath.

 

I don't think there is anything in the TPO legislation to stop you from cutting tree roots and/or changing soil levels providing you don't (and to paraphrase) destroy the tree. Its not a BS 5837 issue, unless you want it to be. It may be possible to hand dig a trench and see if roots are present. It may be possible to sleeve roots, to plate the rooting area, or to offset the rooting area.

 

I don't see why PD rights would be removed. If in a Conservation Area, PD rights will almost certainly be removed. If a condition, 5 years is max. Both easy to check.

 

I know every situation is different and what works for one may not for another, and in this situation, we don't know the facts but my point is, you do not need to go running to the TO. As a consultant, you should have enough knowledge,experience and skill to manage the situation and rather than ask the TO, perhaps you should be telling him/her. Even if you do feel you need to speak to the TO, I would get my paperwork in line first.

 

If the TO turns up make him/her a cup of tea and talk about more important things.

 

Mind you, some TO's are so involved with their work that one of my client's was told that they could not use their ride-on mower beneath a TPO tree's canopy growing in their garden for fear that compaction would occur.

 

OK, the engineering operation is a long shot but it does happen. Not saying it would go anywhere but if the LPA wanted to be awkward it could certainly delay matters.

 

In terms of a solution to dropping the level there may well be but it would need to be looked at properly, not under the radar in my view.

 

I think Jules covered the TPO contravention bit so nothing to add.

 

PD rights are probably in place as long as not in a CA but that would be just a guess, so my advice would be check first. I know a couple of sites where PD rights have been lifted because they are in the AONB. Not a CA.

 

As for max five years, this is not so. Standard conditions are 5 years but I know more than one site where the conditions have been applied for the life of the development. For example garages built with a condition limiting their use to just that for the life of the development. I know of a protected conifer hedge with a life time condition as it forms part of a bat mitigation programme. Every time the owners want to prune it they need to apply to planning. Its not common but it does happen.

 

I'm all for getting things in order first and then telling the TO what you will be doing.

 

Cheers

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

Insofar as my comprehension of your inferred understanding of what oslac implied from your original premise is inconsistent with my prescribed conclusions, I don't think that I can do anything but not concur with your concurrence thereof.

 

 

Understood! 😄👍🏻

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

There's no mention of geographical region or population density in the OP.

 

I'm wondering if opinions might have varied if we'd known that. The text book answer is no, obviously, but in reality?

 

The regs is the regs and they are supposedly equally applied (depending upon interpretation) throughout the UK (with some variations for our North of the border brethren!)

 

But in reality....

 

Say this scenario is in the borough of Hillingdon, VERY high value houses in close proximity, small gardens, loss of permeable ground possibly exacerbating surface water run-off, nosey neighbours twitching curtains as soon as they hear a power tool, busy-bodies and parish councillors on immediate stand-by to get involved.... OK, I could just about cope with billing the stockbroker for reports & submissions and not be too bothered by it.

 

....As compared to an isolated rural location.

 

I seriously think submitting planning apps and TPO requests for this type of endeavour in my area would have 2 very noticeable effects (1) no work (2) a LA unable to administer the input.

 

Maybe it's a "Cornwall" thing? There is a tangible anti-establishment devilment that's kind of culturally ingrained here....