CambridgeJC

Hi Jules...Risk of ivy growing in the countryside? That is not really what I meant to say, as I am fully aware this has probably been occurring for millennia...I am concerned by the risks posed by ivy growth to excess into the canopy of deciduous woodland and hedgerows. These risks are the domination of ivy to the exclusion of traditional trees and hedgerow species as well as dangerous tree fall etc from wind. If allowed to continue on the current path I would suggest that a large number of countryside woodlands and roadside trees and hedgerows will change dramatically for the worse due to trees falling and hedgerows collapsing and this has nothing to do with the cosmetic appearance, but major changes to the habitats and ecology of flora and fauna. Do we sit back and allow this to happen? Or do we recognise the risks this poses and take responsibility for husbandry of our countryside and manage this responsibly? By the way...I may be classified as a junior member here, but I am recently retired and have an amateur (Loving caring) concern of the countryside around me. I suspect as do most on this forum.

Thanks...it would be most helpful if you could refer me to a reference article on this subject...all I can find so far is the occasional statement of fact or opinion, and I am unable to distinguish these apart. Is ivy hermaphrodite? can you confirm this?

I completely understand this from your position as risk surveyor...but this would be mainly risk of falling or other danger to persons or property I guess...not the longterm risk of ivy growth in the countryside and hedgerows which is primarily what I am investigating. No-one has yet come back with a definitive statement of the species of ivy involved. I don't think we are seeing a new species but rather an enhanced tendency towards vigorous growth upwards due either to a climatic or environmental cause or possibly changes to the advised management and husbandry. There is a huge increase in trees overladen with heavy ivy growth towards and into the canopy in my part of the UK. Today I went to check Mick's evidence of both leaf types emanating from the same plant at ground level...I could only find a single leaf type on any one stem when checked back to ground level...however I did find evidence of stems combining and then splitting again with some even growing back downwards. I understand Hedera is in fact hermaphrodite and possesses male and female elements on the same plant. This is interesting as the rounded fleshy paler leaves from ground up wards are the only ones I could find with seed pods from flowering fronds. Could it possibly be that the male is the smaller darker typical ivy shaped leaves found on the ground and the female branches climb vigorously far into the canopy. Both can be found down at ground level but only on their own separate stems. I really need an expert to pronounce on this issue please. Could Mick's image of both leaves on a single stem be on in which the two have grown together at height as in my image attached? The image is correct way up and the broken bit continued upwards after combining and then dividing again.

Good husbandry 🤣🤣. Using ground cover habit and controlling tree invasion habit. If you let it rip for 20 years or so you could end up with this all over your beautiful trees. Not ideal I guess…but I am told this is not a problem 🥴🥴🥴

Hi Mick. This is good strong evidence that a single plant can sprout alternative leaf shape. Very convincing. And new information to me at least. There is huge confusion and contradictory information online and especially when referring to google results as a source. We cannot believe everything that others say. That’s why I am keen to ask true expert for hard knowledge. Both field workers and plant research scientists. I have yet to find such a branch with both leaf shapes myself and will now definitely renew my efforts. Thanks. Good input. As you seem to work in this business could I perhaps ask for some help to get more observations on this issue? Someone needs to get fully up to date with this issue for the sake of clarity. Can you maybe agree with me on this point?

Whether you believe in climate change or not there is no doubt that we are not experiencing the harsh winters when I was very young in the fifties amd sixties. We used to get deep snow and drifts up to 12 or more feet here in the south. Almost every year in Devon there was a thick layer of ice on many roads. That hasn’t happened at all for many years. Ok it may be long or short term but it is a fact. And plants react to yearly changes in the seasons. So it is not unreasonable to consider this may be a cause of a major change in growth behaviour of any species. We can now grow grape vines successfully in the uk. Please don’t dismiss climate change out of hand. There is a lot of evidence for it whatever the cause may be. I do not recall seeing ivy growing so high and vigorous as nowadays and am keen to find whether other people are noticing what I see. If so then there are consequences which may be serious for our countryside. Has anyone got old images of woodlands with high rise ivy? I will be happy if I am wrong. Overjoyed in fact.

Hi Gary112. I loved your photo. Great. This little fella seemed quite at home on my hand🤣. A purple hairstreak butterfly as I understand. Luckily there will always be more than enough ivy to go around. But we’re in danger of letting it take over if we’re not careful.

Tree diseases are just one aspect of this. The problem as I see it comes with ivy growth so fast and vigorous that it starts to overwhelm the tree’s ability to bear the weight and grow normally. Extreme examples which reduce light acquisition will inevitably reduce photosynthesis. But the real physical issue is reduced resistance to strong winds. There are many examples of heavily affected trees where the ivy acts as a sail in winter when trees are dormant and winds are strongest. As uncleared lower growth becomes saturated with ivy the trees grow thinner and taller. Less able to tolerate the sail effects of canopy growth of ivy. So many hedges show blown over shrubs and trees covered with ivy. here are other images. I cannot be alone to notice this. I believe this issue is escalating due to climate and changed attitudes to countryside husbandry. Recognising the problem is the first step towards addressing the issue and taking steps to prevent a catastrophe for our countryside trees and hedgerows.

Mick. Please let us know your qualifications. I confess to being amateur but one with sound scientific background and familiarity with interpretation of data. I want to be able to trust my information so accept what you say. I am a new observer but one with a fresh pair of eyes. We have a problem in this location with ivy and need to define the level of threat before it overtakes our ability to combat it. Hopefully its not too late. We can work together to handle this. But we need facts. Not opinions. Do you agree?

So now we are getting engaged. It helps to keep comments to the facts. And I still wait for informed reply regarding the species involved. And other contributors qualifications if possible. I am an amateur. Trying to obtain facts from informed qualified sources. Thanks to all here.

Thanks guys. Just trying to obtain accurate information at the moment and finding it difficult. What species are involved with our countryside trees and hedgerows. Is it just helix? I am keen to get qualified expert opinion and you can consider me a concerned amateur with scientific background. First I need to understand the basic facts such as accurate species information. Only then can one start to understand the reality of any threat. My images would indicate a possible developing situation locally. By the way I fully appreciate the obvious contribution of ivies to fauna and other wildlife. May I also ask you to provide your own level of experience? What species would result in images that I am providing? I am not suggesting any new species. Just trying to get my facts straight. Your help is really welcome. Thanks

Hi Mick. It seems to me increasingly important by the day as the tree canopy is becoming shrouded in ivy locally to me and probably all over the uk. Unless addressed nationally it grows worse by the day. We could be watching a slow car crash and not realising it. All the information online seems to simply regurgitate prior comments of old that ivy is not any threat and does not address the current evolving situation. I have not even been able to get definitive details of the species of ivies involved. Without this level of detail it will remain an unknown threat and one which needs urgent consideration. I trust you agree? The following image is all ivy in a local deciduous copse!!!

Very interesting comments here so far. I am concerned that we could be inadvertently watching a slow car crash as we discuss this. Very little attention is paid to invasive ivy in our uk countryside. The correct species must be identified as so much confusing comment exists online from admittedly non-experts. And even some experts. The height of ivy growth on countryside trees rises every year to the point that trees can no longer withstand higher wind speeds. If not tackled as a matter of urgency then we can say goodbye to vast numbers of trees. This is now serious and needs professional consideration and action. Do you agree?

I am keen to know the various species of ivy relevant to the uk countryside especially trees and hedgerows. Some say Hedera helix alone exists in uk trees. I am not convinced. This could be very important now.