Mike H

Thanks AMFirewood. That is very helpful.

Hi Have a few logs that have moss and fungi on them. The wood seems good with no soft areas. If I split it and store it in vented bags for 6 months, will the moss and fungi simply die off and disappear? I suspect that customers will not be impressed if there is still remnants of moss/fungi on their logs and so perhaps I should just dump this wood. Any advice? Thanks, Mike

John - I agree. The problem seems to be that there is no relevant definition of forestry in the Planning Acts. As a result, no one can say for sure where forestry ends and industrial activity starts. The relationship between 'agricultural use' and 'forestry use' also seems very grey. However, in 1986 a Judge found that converting trees to hewn poles or logs was “forestry”, but that planing, shaping or sawing logs into specified dimensions was “carpentry”. So making logs into firewood is 'carpentry'! in 2000 (Millington v Secretary of State for Environment) a Judge found that processing which is “reasonably necessary to make the product marketable or disposable for profit” (in this case making wine into grapes) was an ancillary use to growing the raw material, and would therefore not need permissions. It seems to me that it is worth talking to the planners before anyone starts complaining. Keeping a low profile may work if you are very rural, but if you have close neighbours, any complaints could be very difficult to contest, unless you already have managed to get the permissions in place. Its a minefield and the depressing reality is that many of us do forestry work because we hate bureaucracy..... sigh.

Hi paulcumberland - Enforcement Officer advised me that buying in wood makes it an 'industrial' process while if I process/deliver my own wood from my woodland, then I am still under the 'Forestry activity' exemption for a Tachograph. Planning seems to be a whole new ball game, but I think in a similar way, if you can demonstrate you grow and process your own trees, then you are in a stronger position. I think I recall you have previous experience of this?

Hi aesmith I agree, but have a look at https://www.gov.uk/driving-licence-categories I suppose the trailer can have a capacity of more weight than the towing vehicle.... but we must not load it more than the towing vehicle?

Thanks Codlasher - Do you have some form of outrigger for stability as well?

Hi Been looking at Truck Pick-up Crane with Cable Winch Lifting Loading and Unloading Tools Goods | eBay I was thinking that I could either put it onto my trailer or even the back of the 110 Landcover for delivering bulk bags. Anybody experienced using these?

Hi Just phoned VOSA who said they reckon logs are 'forestry' but I should call my local Enforcement Officer to check. The Officer said that as long as they are my own trees, I can process them and deliver to a customer with my Trailer and I do not need a Tacho. However, if I buy in the trees, the 'Forestry' element has then ceased and the processing becomes an industrial activity which is not exempt... so I would need a Tacho. He said that if they see someone taking down windblown trees then they would view that as part of the 'forestry' process and if those trees were cut/processed into logs it would be ok. He did say that it gets a bit grey, but generally if it is a small scale operation and the logs are either directly part of a 'forestry' process (clearing fallen trees) or the trees were cut down by yourself and you did not buy the wood in.... then you are ok. I said that if ever he pulled me over, it would be when I happen to be carrying logs from my small wood, rather than any bought in stuff.... he laughed and said if that was the case, then I would be fine. Summary: I think if you can demonstrate that the trees used for logs are from your own trees or are part of a 'forestry activity' that you have been involved with, then you are OK. If you have clearly bought in the trees and then just processed them into logs, you are not part of the 'Forestry' exemption. If you are under the 'Forestry' exemption and you drive more than 100km from your base, you are subject to UK Law and need to keep a proper record of hours (which I think can be just hand written and signed off by boss).

Here is a VOSA document I have just stumbled upon at: http://www.novadata.co.uk/userdata/files/rules_on_drivers_hours_and_tachographs_-_goods_vehicles_in_gb_and_europe.pdf It states (page 15).... "Exempt from EU Regulations: Vehicles used or hired without a driver by agricultural, horticultural, forestry, farming or fishery undertakings for carrying goods as part of their own entrepreneurial activity within a radius of 100 km from the base of the undertaking." ...which suggests we are only subject to UK regulations. If that is correct, then a Tacho is not required. Written Records may be required, but the chart on page 27 on the above document shows that journeys within 50km (now 100km) don't even need this. The key, I suppose, is whether 'logs' are deemed 'forestry'? Or am I missing something?

Justme - Yup, I think you are right. So how do folks unload bulk bags off a pickup?!

Thanks Openspaceman - Sounds a pain and expensive..... sigh. I'm now thinking I'll just do deliveries from the landrover and get a small swing crane to lower the bags.

So any of us using a trailer to deliver logs almost certainly should have a tacho. How do you go about having a tacho fitted? Can you get cheap diy ones?

Yup, I'm good Thanks Billy. It makes sense otherwise builders/landscapers/gardeners and loads of other businesses will need a tacho but I don't know anyone that actually has one. I think the fact that you are not a 'driver' as your main occupation is important along with being under 7500kg. It seems that if you go abroad or beyond 50km from home, then be careful and perhaps keep records. Anyone know differently?

Alycidon Have a look at Tachograph for vans - towing regulations - commercial vehicles - Fleet News I did the flow chart and ended up with.... "If goods carried are in relation to the drivers work and driving is not his/her main activity You should not need to fit a tachograph. If this changes you should fit a digital tachograph. This exemption only applies to vehicles or combinations of vehicles with a maximum permissible mass not exceeding 7,500 kgs that are used for carrying materials, equipment or machinery for the drivers use in the course of his/her work and the vehicles are used only within a 50km radius of the base of the undertaking and on condition that driving the vehicle does not constitute the drivers main activity." Does firewood count as being the 'drivers work'?

Thanks Alycidon So if you deliver logs to a customer using just the landrover.... no taco required? Also, if you are collecting wood with the trailer, and bringing it home for processing, you are not yet towing a trailer for 'reward' so don't need a taco for that journey... correct?

Hi Wood wasp My understanding is that you do not need a tacho under 3.5t but you do need to keep a log of your hours if you are 50km away from your operating base or you drive more than 4 hours in a day. I assume the log or record must be comprehensive. Anybody do this?!

Hi Rover Wood has been processed into logs and is for paying customers. The wood has mostly been sourced from my own woodland plus some bought by me from local farmers.

Hi Just started and want to make sure I'm legal... a) Landrover 110 + 5'x8' Indespension trailer with brakes....Total unladen weight 2.5 tons. Add 1m3 of wood and total weight must be around 3 tons. b) Licence allows me to drive Category C1+E which is medium sized vehicles with a trailer over 750kg, but the trailer - when fully loaded - can’t weigh more than the vehicle. Obviously need commercial insurance but any legal requirements I'm missing?! thanks...

Newbie questions: 1) If you leave vented bags in the open, are the logs often surface wet which must look bad for the customers when delivered? 2) Do you have Rat poison around the bags? 3) I'm based in Scotland... lots of snow and generally damp... so would storing/seasoning wood in vented bags in the open work ok? 4) If you add vented bag cost, especially barrow bags, onto the overall price, it becomes a bit pricey compared to competitors. Perhaps 1m3 bags makes more sense, but how do you guys manage to deliver these big bags? I have a 8x5 trailer, so is there a hoist/crane I should be considering? Thanks in advance, Mike