john the saw

Great to see so many of you guys at the Confor show and very grateful for feedback. I think that we confused the issue when we launched on here as we called our machine a sawmill. It is really a table saw so that is what we now call it. Whilst it is a stand-alone mill, many of you saw it as more of a companion machine for larger equipment which can sometimes under-perform with smaller sizes of timber. Of course, being able to mill smaller diameters can mean buying poles at firewood prices as the larger mills would not be interested - and a milled beam 8" x 8" x 3metres is not exactly small. 2015 videos now available to view at silverclaw.eu and all comments gratefully received as always. Oh and check-out new time-limited price drop on our prices page. Cheers John - Silverclaw

Hi stompey, I really appreciate you taking the time to give me your comments and opinions. I've already made some points regarding depth of cut relative to handling difficulties and expense on additional equipment required. There are excellent machines available with greater cutting depth capability if that is what someone requires. I take your point but disagree that there is anything out there with the capabilities of our machine for half the price and you need to take everything into account when making a comparison. For example, you could buy a carriage and strap on a chainsaw which would get you planking for around £1000. Clearly this would not be as safe or accurate, you would spend the day with blue smoke in your face and hours sharpening chains and mixing up 2 stroke. A couple of Polish guys clubbed together and they reckon our machine paid for itself within a fortnight. They were in a remote location with a difficult 3 hour round trip to their lumber suppliers. Their land is smothered with 6 - 8" diameter 60 foot pines which they now mill, use and sell. They don't need a larger depth-of-cut capacity nor any other equipment other than their felling chainsaw. A carpenter specialising in boat fit-out told us that our machine was the first of it's type that he has used where he hasn't needed to plane the timber down afterwards due to the cleanliness of cut and accuracy. He said that he makes a lot of money making beech deck straking alone. I don't think that it is fair to compare 2nd hand machinery prices with new, modern equipment - you would not have been able to buy that lovely Wadkins new for half the price of our machine. Your comments on what you seem to consider to be simple design modifications to increase the depth of cut, really had me spluttering on my coffee. You would not believe the amount of regulations that we have to take into account for compliance with the Machinery Directive alone, besides all of the things that we have to take into account to ensure safe and optimal operation. To give you an idea i will give you some information on just the blade. Peripheral (rim) speed is critical and can neither be too fast or too slow. The ideal speed is somewhat tricky to determine in view of use variables such as hard or soft wood, wet or dry etc etc but a good compromise is 70 metres per second. The 15HP engine sweet-spot is 3000 rpm and we gear-down 1:1.6 via the drive system to give us a shaft speed of 1875 rpm which gives our 710mm diameter blade a peripheral speed of 69.7 m/s. We worked to university laboratory reports regarding blade speeds because maximum speeds (marked by law on the blade by the manufacturers) are very misleading and we are in touch with the relevant government departments trying to get the criteria changed. The manufacturers quoted maximum speed is the speed at which they consider the blade would fail e.g. TCT teeth brazing etc and is usually 2 or 3 times in excess of the CRT (critical rotational speed i.e. the point at which the blade becomes unstable) which is itself well in excess of the ORS (optimum rotational speed) i.e. the speed at which the blade performs best. Our blade is to our own exclusive design as we also wanted to optimise metal composition, number of teeth, depth of gullets, tooth rake angle, tooth bevel orientation, kerf, body width etc etc. I could go on but i want to get onto our challenge. As you know from our videos, our machine does more than just produce planks but we are happy to test your claim on this operation alone. We milled a 2.4 metre 10" oak out of the round into 1" thick, square-edged planks in 15 minutes. Now that you have revised your claim from 3 times as fast to twice as fast, this gives you seven and a half minutes - best of luck and let me know how you get on. Incidentally, we were not going for any kind of record and just worked at normal speed. One final thing is that our machine produces a maximum vernier-measured accuracy discrepancy of under 1.0 mm down the length and we would be interested in the comparison. Just to be clear, this doesn't mean that one end is 1.0mm bigger or smaller than the other, but that no measurement taken at any point down the length is plus or minus 1.0mm. If you used our machine, i am sure that you would be comfortable drawing the wood back as shown in our videos. If not then 3 footsteps allows you to offload the wood from the rear of our machine if you prefer. It is the manufactured accuracy of our machine that allows you to bring the wood back whereas this can be a problem on other equipment as you say. Finally, we are working on all sorts of add-on equipment to increase the number of possible operations including those that you suggest. Thanks again my friend and i look forward to hearing from you regarding the seven and a half minute challenge. Best wishes john - silverclaw

Hi, Thanks for your comment and yes it is. I don't know how involved you are/have been with respect to CE marking. When CE marking first came to be, i worked alongside a guy who sat on the comittee that made the rules. I told him that i thought it a bit weak that self-certification through declaration of conformity kind of defeated the object. We now have a situation where many people confuse CE marking with a guarantee of safety and quality. We have all bought or seen items that carry a CE mark, that are neither safe nor are of good quality. At great cost we appointed independent 3rd party certifiers and ensured that we exceeded standards at every turn, rather than aiming for mere compliance. As a pleasant surprise, we were advised that a new standard would have to be written around our machine as it falls in between various standards covering site saws, construct saws, table saws and saw mills. I was a bit surprised myself to see sketches of 'typical arrangements' of this type of equipment within BS-ENs showing an operator with hands close to a blade, using a little push stick and only a token top shroud separating him from head-contact oblivion. A friend asked me to mill some timber for him recently and came over to see it done with his wife (herself a highly qualified engineer) and their 9 year old daughter. Once i had shown them over the machine, i was gratified to see that they were perfectly happy to see their little girl running around while i was milling, with no thought of 'sit down and stay still'. Blade, shafts, pulley, belt contact is simply not possible with our machine and no shroud impedes operation in any way. Best wishes john - silverclaw

Hi stompey, Thanks for your feedback - much appreciated. Our machine is intended as an entry level mill or as a companion machine to a larger mill. Nothing is all things to all people but we felt that there was a place for an intermediate machine with a range of capabilities. Obviously if someone wants to mill 16" planks then our machine is not for them but i don't think that it's right or fair to correlate smaller available cut-size with non-professionalism. When milling, we step-down ourselves to a smaller table saw once timber is of plank thickness. I take your point about bringing the timber back past the blade. Our videos were intended to demonstrate one-man operation and you will note that on our video demonstrating the feather-edge cut, we offload from the other end as the piece is quite light at this stage. We have never had a piece thrown back towards the operator even when cutting difficult species. If this did happen however it wouldn't be a problem as the operator is positioned to the side of the machine out of harm's way. The size of the machine is intentional to prevent any access to the blade during operation - nothing safer. A lot of accidents occur when operators pull timber from the 'wrong side', timber snags and is pulled back through the blade along with fingers. Riving knives (the subject of my original offering to this thread) often only offer partial protection as they don't cover full height and are not intended for this function in any event. With respect to speed, we can process a 10" diameter log into beams and then planks in about 15 minutes start-to-finish which we don't think is too bad. If you're up for a challenge, we would be happy to see you outstrip us by a factor of 3. Of course, we would look to see you perform the same variety of operations as us, to the same degree of accuracy/cleanliness of cut, and safe as houses while you do it. Returning to the limitations regarding cut-size, the cost of the milling machine is just the starting point when handling large trunks as other expensive machinery is required. Our machine is really intended to process timber that two guys can lift. As i said, nothing is all things to all people but we would hope for broad support as a small british manufacturer, trying to offer a safe, intermediate machine for those who can see the benefit. With respect to cost, yes we could make our machine cheaper if that is peoples' primary concern but we won't as this can only happen by compromising on quality. There are cheaper alternatives to the Honda GX630 engine (as well as our 3 phase power plant) and we could do all sorts of other things such as use unflanged mild steel fixing nuts and bolts rather than stainless steel but we won't. Our machine is classified as static although we have borne in mind ease of break-down and set-up in the modular design. I don't see your comments as negative at all and thank you again for taking the time to provide your feedback. Best wishes john - silverclaw

Hi steve, Yep i understand that you would want a larger cutting capacity so our machine might not be for you. I'm covering the philosophy behind our machine in answers to other posts on this forum. By the by, i've run some 2.5" sq ash (coming out of our kiln end march) in case you still have a problem obtaining some. Cheers john

Hi all, We are putting together a press release with steve bullman at the moment regarding our SC101 Table Saw - including a time-limited substantial discount for Arbtalk members. We have posted several videos on our website of the SC101 performing a variety of tasks - SAFELY!! We have a whole page dedicated to safety and have spent thousands of pounds and years of design time trying to keep you guys whole. Under no circumstances should you operate these types of machine without a riving knife - there are very strict safety standards relating to riving knives so it's not a case of finding something that looks the part and bolting it on. We cannot stop people putting themselves and others at risk but we have tried to offer an alternative. All feedback welcome. John - silverclaw.eu

Hi alec - great post! I want everyone to understand that i am not slagging-off these machines. I was only objecting to the comparison because the Transformer can do so much more within it's capacity limitations. I agree with steve that these are handy pieces of kit and thank you for getting the drift of the intended use of the Transformer and pointing it out. Most of the confusion is my fault for not posting vids earlier - now scheduled for next week. Our target user is really a guy with a bit of wooded land who want to make a few quid by processing small lumber. Most of you guys seem to process lumber far larger than the Transformer is capable of handling but i still think that you would derive benefit from our machine - it's a lot of kit for the money. I suppose that i am a bit tetchy when it comes to remarks on CE marking. It has cost me a small fortune but i believe in it wholeheartedly. Self-certification is worthless in my opinion and when it comes to the diligence of the government-licenced independent 3rd party inspectorate that we employ, fine-toothed combs just ain't in it. If you take the riving knife as an example, standards specify in detail everything from the tensile strength of steel used, to thickness relative to the blade and kerf width, height relative to blade diameter, side and end-on loading and distortion tests, space of continuous running gap between the knife and the blade kerf etc etc. I have been determined to not just comply with regs, but to exceed them and produce a machine that is as-far-as-possible foolproof with respect to operator safety. Per your request for details of what i saw, a husband and wife team were demonstrating a self-certified tracked bandsaw planker and hadn't securely chocked the end of the lumber. At the end of the cut the blade caught and swung the lumber sideways smashing the woman in the hip. The blade twisted and shattered and a piece flew out like a bullet but thankfully hit no-one. Operator error i agree but it's what i saw. I remain grateful for all of the feedback from you guys and hope that you continue to look kindly on our efforts to provide a safe, british-made capable intermediate machine, even if it's not for you. All the best john - silverclaw

No worries steve, i just got a bit concerned with people talking about importing non-compliant products. Someone could end up without a leg to stand on - legally as well as possibly literally Also it would be illegal for a non-compliant machine to be sold within the eu irrespective. Having said that, i agree that a little machine like that would be handy for some people, even with the limited capability - although the Transformer gives you so much more. There would however be reasons why CE certification had not been granted which may not be immediately obvious. I will PM you when the vids are up and you can at last see what i have been wittering on about. All the best. john - silverclaw

Hi steve, I think that it's me who has not explained things properly. Firstly there are massive liability issues with the sale and use of non-CE marked product - have you come across any no-win no-fee lawyer ads recently? Any insurances would be automatically voided. I have seen machines like this snag and get out of control, and bandsaws snap and it ain't pretty. There is a reason why we have spent 10's of thousands of pounds on CE safety compliance - and it's not just because we have to. Next, the Transformer has far greater capability for processing lumber within the size restrictions. How do you get out of the round with a machine like this? How do you sharpen a fence post? How do you make shiplap? How do you cut 45 degrees? How do you crosscut? etc etc. The Transformer would complete a cut length like that in about 15 seconds. Even big strong boys like you guys would know all about it after having swung around and pushed a machine like that all day. A 12 year old girl could rip with the Transformer all day and would still be raring to play netball in the evening. You can't compare like-for-like as there is no other machine in the world like the Transformer - that's why a new BS-EN is being written around it. What you can do is stop comparing like for not-like. Sorry about the vids delay - they will be posted by the end of next week. All the best john - silverclaw.

Hi guys, Thanks to everyone who has posted with comments and opinions. We have re-negotiated with our major suppliers to cut costs (not quality) and are pleased to announce that we can launch at a much reduced price for all versions - see our web site for the new prices. We understand that the benefits of our machine can only really be appreciated through seeing a video of it in action and are working hard to get some vids posted ASAP. Best wishes. John - Silverclaw.

Should be ok - not sure where the problem lies but try it on a laptop if you get the chance. Don't think that i can do anything this end. Best wishes. John - silverclaw.

Hi, I've just relocated back to england having spent the last 20 years or so in my place in southern brittany. I'm selling my place cheap - nice farmhouse and 20 acres of land with lots of standing oak and ash. Get my number from our website silverclaw.eu and ring me if your interested or to have a chat about living in france. I wouldn't go too far south as it gets a bit hot and trees don't like it. You should be fine mid-north as farmers consider trees in hedgerows a pest for their tractor runs so you should find work ok. There is always a call for firewood as most of france is rural running on wood burners. All the best john - silveclaw.

Hi, Well that is strange and the first that i have heard of it - thanks for letting me know. I will check that out. Meanwhile, have you tried inputting the address silverclaw.eu rather than clicking on the banner or trying another server? Having said that, I have just clicked on our banner and went straight to the site. Best wishes. John - Silverclaw.

Hi stompey, I completely agree with your first paragraph and am grateful that you guys take the time to post. I agree with your other comments as well - pros and cons as with most things in life. As i said earlier, the Transformer is primarily intended to be a static machine but designed to be reasonably quick and easy to set up and take down. I suppose one scenario would be to set it up in a place of work for a few days and then move it on. We would not describe it as portable. With respect to other equipment being out there that can do similar things, i agree entirely. We have just tried (and succeeded in our view) to produce a handy machine that can do a variety of things quickly, easily and well. Best wishes. John - Silverclaw.

Hi steve, Yes i understand and agree. The Transformer is primarily intended to be a static machine but designed to be reasonably quick and easy to change location. That is different to being portable i agree. I guess that there are pros and cons with most things and accept that no machine can be all things to all people. Thanks for your post. John - Silverclaw.