Llenya

Honestly! Is this the way Police investigate crime these days?

I think 25 Euros per Tonne is a reasonable price to make this...Stere - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia out of felled trees.

Firstly, I should apologise for a mathmatical mistake in my earlier post:- 1 Stere is 1m x 1m x 1m 1 Corde is 3m x 1m x1m [not 3m x 3m x 1m as posted] After studying some of the replies I think I may have stumbled on the problem/solution. "In Europe, certainly here in Spain, we charge the processing of firewood by the tonne of wet wood --- Not a per hour wage! If I bring in a tonne of green trunks then I immediately convert to firewood at 25euro per tonne. I suspect that you work per hour......and that may show the problems. For 25euros I am expected to cut to length and stack into Steres or Cordes. Then I sell by volume, not tonnes. I can sell "green" immediately, or I can sell at any time in the future. The price will be based on moisture content. Eg. I buy 10 tonne for 500 euros.........I convert to firewood for 25 euro per tonne, [250 euros] = 750 euros for 10 tonnes. I convert tonnes to m3 based on moisture content at the time the customer buys and I cover my costs and make a profit. Some of my customers want to buy "Green Wood" cheap from me and dry their own. Perhaps if you guys charged a set fee for converting from Trunk to Firewood per Tonne the your numbers might add up a little bit better..that's how we do it here!

In my opinion, this is where the rest of Europe embarrases the Uk. Europe does not sell airspace to their customers! As outlined above:- A Stére is an "Official European measurement of cut wood" in France. It is One Cubic metre cut for firewood purposes. It is "tightly packed" and not a "loose firewood bundle" normally associated with the UK way of bundling firewood. The French buy their wood in "Stére bundles" of 1m x1m x1m or "Cordes" which is 3m x 3m x 1m" closely hand packed. The customers do NOT pay for the "air" that the UK customers do! If you look at firewood for sale on sites like "www.Alibaba.com" you will see 1m lengths stacked properly on crates. This is how the world (outside UK) buys and sells firewood. (Closely packed). In my experience the UK is the only place in Europe where "Loose firewood" (unregulated) thrown into a trailer or "one of the various Big-Bags" has a market. You are hoodwinking your customers. [or at least trying to hoodwink them] (In a previous thread I outlined the dangers of firewood suppliers relying on the UK not having a regularity system!) As a firewood supplier you might begin to appreciate, and educate your costumers more. Food for thought. I am not attacking the UK---I AM you guys who sell 1 cubic metre [Loose] as 1m3. 1 m3 is a Stére --tightly packed. There is no such thing as a loose UK "Lorry Load, Trailer Load, tonnage or Kgs..................We need to work in unison with what the customer wants. I, personnally think that "Packed M3 + Stéres and Cordes" are the way to go!

Part 2.....Plumbing:::: Simply click onto "Distric Heating Pipes" on Google Images to see the many companies who supply ther necessary pipes to convey your hot water. They are expensive but the work very well. Ali1, your "Project" is a good one and will work well if you pay attention to the details of having a good infrastructure. 1. A boiler designed to take in your chips or firewood blocks at a stable Moisture Contant. 2. A piping system, built under Frost Condition ground, (around 2ft), capable of feeding each Caravan. 3. An overflow water tank capable of absorbing any lost heat by those Caravans not availing of your hot water. Many many companies can fulfill your requirements, just search for what suits YOU! The search words are "District Heating".

Hi Mr Ali1, I like guys who come with "an idea"! It shows that you are thinking. Over the years, whilst researching the fruits of my own idea, I managed to dig up some useful facts which might be useful to you. 1. Your idea is certainly achievable. 2. Your idea works perfectly well on different magnitudes of scale in all of the Scandinavian countries. My research took me to Findland where I saw the benefits of heating everything from Farmhouses to Campsites to Villages! 3. Ali1, your idea is perfect but you need to pay attention to 2 important factors....... Firstly!!!. Moisture content and chip size (or log size) MUST be stable to fit the Boiler unit you choose. IE. you must buy your burner unit to always burn a particular m/c that you feed it. Part 2 to follow in a minute or two.......Piping/Plumbing...........most necessary

Sam, you are right; as is Goaty. [minus the diseases] Desease-Scare is something that Governments use to control people's buying and spending..] For example; In 2 yrs time the BR Government might say that "all imported firewood has to be screened for "BUG X" (Like Russia is doing at the moment with ALL exports of trees. Please don't accept everything your Government tells you! If you don't believe me then research your own legislation in the UK and you will find that, "if you are an honest tradesman" you will never make a profit! At the moment, we firewood producers and sellers are an unknown quantity! Long may it last, but eventually legislation will catch up with us and the Conglamorates will take over.

Oh Dear!, I feel one of these "Judgement Moments" coming on! Are you now going to say " I`ve been cutting trees since before you were born"!!! I´m only pointing out that since I have spent many thousands of pounds, yes GBPs, on research into Biomass...[mainly wood pellets], I have seen how a slight change in Government policy can completely disrupt a single person's Business Plan. To answer you question...Since 2005. Stephen

Slasher, how many firewood processors on this site buy more than ... say...100 tonnes at a time?

Goaty, you certainly seem have a handle on the situation. I give you Kudos! However, I get the feeling that most contributers to this firewood forum feel that the unregulated firewood system, they enjoy, will continue... What happens when they spend BIG money on processing machines and then find that one law change can put them out of business. I spent 2 yrs on a biomass project [Yes 2 yrs just on paperwork and logistical research, including visits to Finland, -France - and other countries] which was about to take off at a cost of 3.5 million UK pounds....but....I saw signs that Spain were about to pull the plug on Biomass grants....so I held back! Thank GOoDness I did. I would have lost a furtune because of some Civil Servant's ineptitude at handling previous governmental promises! My interest at the moment is firewood. However, I am making a point that it is a 5 year plan and not a "Winter to Winter" thing. I'm just wondering if this is what other providers think?

Inspired by an earlier thread regarding the future of firewood sales in the UK, I wonder if there is a tendency here for firewood merchants to dwell only on Winter to Winter sales; hoping that they have enough firewood to meet their local supply demand for the incoming winter? I would be interested in the views of suppliers/wholesalers who look forward, say 5 years or more, to having enough split firewood, either seasoned or kiln dried, to be able to remain in the market. My own view is that governments will eventually bring in enough legislation (probably forced by Brussels), to exclude most of the contributers to this website! My belief is:- We are a sideline to these government issues which seem to somehow enforce legislation upon us. We will only last so long before conglamorates dictate how we operate. Yes, I feel our days are numbered and so we should appreciate what we have at the moment. Is it time that we should "look after ourselves for 'at least' the next five years? Food for thought. Stephen Grow and Harvest whilst you can. I am:blushing:

I empathise here Lognstuff... having worked alongside civil servants for more than 25yrs I found that they insulate themselves into the pockets of responsibility given to them. They crave for a better office (with an upgrade of office furniture and windows), and the extra [Power] responsibility given to them with that position. One of the reasons I was happy to extract myself from the Uk system. :001_tongue: I think firewood sales manages to work outside the "system" at the moment only because it's something they [desk bound control jockeys] can't get total control over. [Logsnstuff...sorry we had that earlier altercation over Tonnes/Tons. Seems you are one of the good guys on the forum.] Regards Stephen (watching the hailstones coming down outside in his shorts:thumbup1:]

Logsnstuff, I am also one who was taught imperial measures at school, but when it comes to firewood you can´t afford to do your numbers in "old empire" equations. I´m sure no one sells trees by the imperial ´Ton´ (infact it is illegal) so if you then begin to convert your perceived 1016Kgs into metric measurements, either kilograms or cubic metres, you will most certainly lose 16Kgs out of your pocket every time.

Thank you all, so far, for your replies. I can see that there are many complications involved because the UK system is not regulated. I am not one for State Regulation,( insofar that the firewood industry might be able to regulate itself) Also there are operators here, on this website, who have no focus, (or ideas), as to how the "End Customer" might perceive their product! I find this astonishing that Firewood Providers, (who post on this website) , seem to dwell on their profit margins in comparison with other website contributers...instead of making use of the website to "Rally Forces" to promote a system whereby everyone can benefit! You guys have a website here where everyone has an opportunity to safeguard yourselves from outside competition, a means of making and meeting ´like minded people´and yet you seem to make it into a competition of "who´s got the biggist D**K! So........do you tell your "new customer" that you have a good product, (and be able to quote him/her M3/Tonnes MoistureContent etc, OR do you hoodwink him or her into buying so that you can make your profit margin? I´m beginning to recognise that some folk here on this website do not consider that, no matter how hard they work, (and we recognise it is hard work), when it comes to selling...please consider the customer and their "new" needs! Millions of euros have gone into developing household stoves. Everyone who buys a stove is locked into 10 years of buying your firewood. Consider and listen to your customer. Obviously I have much more to say on the matter of firewood but for now I´ll keep it short. S

OH DEAR!! Now I see where a lot of confusion exists in the UK... The "Ton" went out along with Nelson´s eye:sneaky2: To be precise it was fased/phased out in 1965. Someone is losing money here...1 TONNE is 1000Kgs. There is no extra/missing 16Kgs. Regarding the original post: I think you need to clarify, for the benefit of other posters; when you say ´Wholesale´ I take it you mean " for sale to other traders" and NOT " bulk sales to the public" ?