ROG.

Did I say it did????????

I must have mis-read your post = sorry

No, this was cleared up by a letter posted by Peter.

That letter has absolutely nothing to do with tacho or licencing laws

That letter simply explains that a vehicle with a GTW of say 5000 can have a GVW of 3500 and a trailer MAM of 3500 but the actual combined loaded weight is restricted to 5000

Just found this out so for those of you that didn't know Id thought id just post it up. So turns out if you tow a trailer.. That includes chippers and your vehicle exceeds 3.5t with the trailer then for work you have to run a taco in your vehicle, apparently that inudes pick ups 😕

DEPENDS IF AN EXEMPTION APPLIES

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/ALL/;ELX_SESSIONID=z1QnJjrPyLwRDqMRw6pzfTS0pvf1nQ2nhWsJJrkNv1mf6BhJfYXF!164623754?uri=CELEX:32006R0561

Article 13 (d)

vehicles or combinations of vehicles with a maximum permissible mass not exceeding 7,5 tonnes used:

for carrying materials, equipment or machinery for the driver's use in the course of his work.

These vehicles shall be used only within a 50 (SOON TO BE 100) kilometre radius from the base of the undertaking, and on condition that driving the vehicles does not constitute the driver's main activity;

So if tge vehicle towing had a max weight of 2.5 tonne and the caravan mam was 1 tonne that would be okay?

 

Sent from my ST23i using Arbtalk mobile app

If the vehicle had a plated GVW of 2500 kg and the caravan had a plated MTPLM of 1000 then yes it would be legal for a B licence

SUPERVISING A B+E LEARNER

In April 2010 new rules were introduced for those supervising certain learner drivers but they only affected those supervising VOCATIONAL categories such as C1 C1+E D1 & D1+E where the supervising driver had those categories given to them for free when they passed a pre 1997 car test.

They do not affect those with a pre 1997 B+E licence who wish to supervise a B+E learner

 

 

ROG

I'm well confused

I've got a C1+E can i supervise a B licence holder for provisional B+E

with L Plates

as above on a motorway

 

up to KG 3500 trailer

As you have C1+E that means you also must have B+E so yes you can supervise a B+E learner subject to the usual rules for learner and supervisor

I'm still confused mate ? If the caravan is under 750 is it alright to tow?

 

 

Sent using My c

On the caravan usually near the door is the weight plate and that will show the MTPLM weight which is the MAM weight in the same way that the weight plate on the vehicle shows the GVW which is the MAM weight

As the vehicle MAM is over 2750 kg then the max MAM for the caravan or trailer is 750 kg for B towing

Plated weights are used for licencing not actual weights

Whats the situation regarding towing a caravan with a ford ranger without having a trailer license? Cheers

 

Sent from my ST23i using Arbtalk mobile app

Ford RANGER Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW) | Van leasing made simple

Max caravan plated MTPLM 750 kg

Is driver training or similar your profession or are you just informed because you've taken the time to find out anyway?

I am a current IAM observer (since 1998) and was a LGV instructor (2005 to 2008)

Since not having work for a number of years I got interested in the weights and licencing laws as well as the regs for LGV drivers

Sounds good. Do you have a link to any of the .gov sites regarding towing on l-plates or are they one of the grey areas? Can't imagine why it wouldn't be as obvious as all the easy to find towing stuff...

Found this see page 14 = https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/208103/ins57p.pdf

Thank you very much. Another couple while you're still here:

-Can I tow on a motorway with L-plates and a licenced passenger?

-Where do you get your info? 'ROG. told me' will unfortunately not convince many police/magistrates. Not asking to antagonise; just need to be sure.

All B licence holders have B+E provisional on the paper part of their licence and can tow an empty or loaded trailer on all roads including motorways.

What a good question

My info is from what is officially written on the internet (Gov sites) as well as confirming any 'not so clear' points by Emailing my MP who gets me the definitive answers from the DfT minister

I also have recent ex-police traffic officers and recent ex-VOSA who can assist me

The B+E test has changed quite a bit over the last 2 years so here is the current version ......

The B+E test

No medical or theory test required

Read a number plate from a certain distance

VIDEO - Show Me Tell Me Questions - usually 5 asked = [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqw6Ua3kmFc&feature=related]Show Me Tell Me Questions and Answers For The UK Driving Test - YouTube[/ame]

The next three can be in any order:-

VIDEO - Reversing Exercise = B+E Trailer reversing excercise videos - done in test centre grounds if test conducted from practical test centre - some tests are now being done from training school grounds

DSA REVERSING TEST AREA DIAGRAM = https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/68791/LGV_PCV_BE_manoeuvring_exercise_area_diagram.pdf

VIDEO - Uncouple/couple up = [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ao_5KOe8dGg&feature=related]How to de-couple & re-couple a small trailer - YouTube[/ame] - done in test centre grounds if test conducted from practical test centre - some tests are now being done from training school grounds

One hour road drive - includes the independent drive and is done virtually the same as the basic car test

The trailer must now be loaded with 600 kgs of sand bags or a 1000 kgs water IBC for the test so most companies are now training with that weight in the trailer = https://www.gov.uk/new-laden-testing-rules-for-driving-test-vehicles

Well explained here = Trailer Training Wales taking the B+E Test

DISCLAIMER - I have no connection to any companies which may be featured in those videos

This is interesting BUT NOT RECOMMENDED – a B licence towing set up can be presented for the B+E test but L plates must be used for the test that means you can train yourself, go to test by yourself, fit L plates, do the test, then, pass or fail, remove L plates and drive away by yourself.

DSA B+E TEST AND VEHICLE/TRAILER REQUIREMENTS = http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensing/CaravansTrailersCommercialVehicles/DG_4022521

Remember that the required 600 kgs of sand bags or 1 x 1000 IBC filled with water will be required in the trailer and the load must be secure.

Thanks Treequip, Our new mechanic used to work for VOSA so he's well up on this kind of thing. What would be our max train weight? It's a 1250ag registered as agricultural....

Thanks

What licence will the driver have? - B+E?

Most things are simple - its the way they are written which often makes them seem complicated and does not help when the authorities leave the old rules for public view

Here are the simple driving licence towing rules ......

These rules apply to all B and B+E category drivers no matter when the test was passed

B category

Vehicle not more than 3500 kg plated GVW

B category towing

A trailer of 750 kg max plated MAM may be towed by a B category vehicle making a possible total plated MAM of 4250 kg

If a trailer over 750 kg plated MAM is towed by a B category vehicle then the plated GVW of the vehicle added to the plated MAM of the trailer (MTPLM of a caravan) must not total more than 3500 kg

B+E category

Towing a trailer with a B category vehicle where the trailer is not over 3500 kg plated MAM

To tow a trailer over 3500 kg plated MAM the category needed is C1+E

Hang on. This is interesting!

 

I got my licence after 1997 and before 2013. Are you saying I can put L-plates on my 3.5 tonne vehicle, sit a pre-1997 licence holder in the passenger seat and tow a 3.5 tonne trailer? And my pre-97 licence passenger doesn't need to be insured but my insurance needs to cover me for >750kg towing while supervised?

 

Really as easy as that? Sounds too good to be true.

Correct - that is perfectly legal

pre 1997 C1+E has a 107 code which restricts the driver to a total plated MAM weight of 8250 kg

Examples

7.5 tonne GVW with 750 kg plated MAM trailer

6.0 tonne GVW + 2250 kg plated MAM trailer

4.5 tonne GVW + 3.750 kg plated MAM trailer

SUPERVISING A B+E LEARNER

In April 2010 new rules were introduced for those supervising certain learner drivers but they only affected those supervising VOCATIONAL categories such as C1 C1+E D1 & D1+E where the supervising driver had those categories given to them for free when they passed a pre 1997 car test.

They do not affect those with a pre 1997 B+E licence who wish to supervise a B+E learner.

All B licence holders have B+E provisional on the paper part of their licence and can tow an empty or loaded trailer on all roads including motorways.

The usual rules apply when a learner is driving -

The supervising driver must be aged over 21

The supervising driver must have held a B+E licence for at least 3 years

L plates must be fitted to the front of the vehicle and the rear of the trailer

Correct insurance for a B+E learner

The supervising driver does not need to be insured unless they are driving

These rules apply to all B and B+E category drivers no matter when the test was passed

B category

Vehicle not more than 3500 kg plated GVW

B category towing

A trailer of 750 kg max plated MAM may be towed by a B category vehicle making a possible total plated MAM of 4250 kg

If a trailer over 750 kg plated MAM is towed by a B category vehicle then the plated GVW of the vehicle added to the plated MAM of the trailer (MTPLM of a caravan) must not total more than 3500 kg

B+E category

Towing a trailer with a B category vehicle where the trailer is not over 3500 kg plated MAM

To tow a trailer over 3500 kg plated MAM the category needed is C1+E

This is for B only licence - no B+E

A 3500 GVW transit can tow a 750 kgs MAM trailer

The vehicle and trailer have their own individual weight limits which means in the above the transit can actually weight 3500 when loaded and the trailer can weigh 750 kgs when loaded making a max MAM of 4250 which is legal for a B licence

The 3500 total MAM limit comes into force when the trailer is more than 750 kgs MAM

Any vehicle with a GVW of less than 2750 kgs can have a trailer more than 750 kgs MAM

Example

Vehicle GVW 2600

Trailer MAM 900

GVW and MAM mean the same thing - the max weight they can legally be when fully loaded

A couple of things changed on 19/01/2013

For all B licence towing of a trailer over 750 kgs MAM the one simple extra rule is now just

Vehicle GVW added to trailer MAM must not total more than 3500 kgs

The kerb weight rules has been revoked

For those that pass both B and B+E after 19/01/2013 - they are restricted to trailers of no more than 3500 kgs MAM which will affect virtually nobody !

IF ANY BODY IS IN DOUGHT CALL THE ROAD HAULAGE ASSOCIATION ON 01733 261131 for clarification don't get nicked !! (the RHA teach the CPC courses)

Better still - call the DSA DCPC hotline on 0191 201 8112

Got it. I should pass....!

 

Hire as in hire one to move stuff for fun....

I see

If only driving LGVs privately then no dcpc required unless under age 21 and driving a LGV over 7.5 tonnes

Thanks Rog.

I think that was what I was thinking of.

Cat C would be nice and it's not for commercial purposes, just the occasional hire or so that I could buy myself a little lorry.... God knows why, just something I've always wanted!

Would that exempt me from the CPC & medical side of things...?

Medical is needed for both private and commercial

What do you mean by HIRE ?

Passing any LGV +E test will give B+E for life

All B licence drivers have the B+E provisional on the paper part of their licence so no theory etc required for the B+E test

If you only need to tow a 3500 max MAM trailer then finding the right B category vehicle which will do that and passing the B+E test is the easiest and cheapest option

To add -

If this is for commercial use then you will need the driver cpc as well

To get LGV C1 for commercial use ....

D4 medical = about £50 ... much more and you have been ripped off

D2 form - tick C & D only = covers you medically for all categories

Visit your preferred LGV training school before parting with any money

Modules to pass -

1a theory

1b HPT

2 dcpc theory

3 practical road drive, reverse and un/couple if +E test

4 practical dcpc

Thanks Rog, so I guess I should get some driver training and go straight from B to C1 to C1+E then....?

If C1+E is your ultimate level then yes

The cheapest way is to find a company that uses a 5 tonne van for C1 and then adds the trailer to same van for the +E

If you think that you will need higher categoies in the future then go for C and then C+E which covers you for C1 and C1+E